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Topic: All-Decade ideas

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Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #14 on: June 28, 2020, 06:22:06 PM »
You'd remove Gordon's 2,500 yard season?
I know people would love Barkley included, and Ball isn't as big a name.  I couldn't omit Gordon, he had the 2nd-most yards in a season, ever.
Well...stat wise?  Probably not.  Would I rather have Barkley or Gordon on my team?  Barkley.

Ball's numbers weren't great.  It was more a matter of feeding him the ball 356 times in a single season.  To put that in perspective, that is almost 10% higher than 2019's leader (328 attempts), and almost 20% higher than 2018's leader (301 attempts).
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 08:51:16 PM by Big Beef Tacosupreme »

Entropy

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #15 on: June 28, 2020, 06:40:16 PM »
I'm a big Gordon fan, but if I was taking a rb.. I'd take Barkley first.


but let's be honest... nobody would be disappointed with Gordon on their team. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #16 on: June 29, 2020, 12:48:24 AM »
As one RB is going to be a pass-catcher as well, Barkley fits that role well.  


It's just a fine line of wanting college-only production vs name recognition vs NFL-caused name recognition for a college-specific medium.

“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

bayareabadger

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #17 on: June 29, 2020, 10:56:45 AM »
Well...stat wise?  Probably not.  Would I rather have Barkley or Gordon on my team?  Barkley.

Ball's numbers weren't great.  It was more a matter of feeding him the ball 356 times in a single season.  To put that in perspective, that is almost 10% higher than 2019's leader (328 attempts), and almost 20% higher than 2018's leader (301 attempts).
You’re looking at the wrong season. OAM listed the 2011 season, when Ball got 307 carries and averaged 6.3 YPC. That season was impressive in its way, but not one you’d pluck as great beyond the sheer workload.

Barkley is a fascinating player. He was a masterful talent and a joy to watch. He was unreal explosive and not very efficient. Some of that can be about the OL. That Ball season was low on explosiveness, but apparently impossibly high on efficiency (I don’t have the good stats for back then). In theory, Barkley should have the effect that Clemson backs have where the RPOs make you lower usage, more productive per play, but Barkley was the less productive than many of those seasons, at least on a per carry basis.

His case is a deeply weird one.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #18 on: June 29, 2020, 01:07:42 PM »
It may be weird, but I don't think it's all that rare - where the perceived, consensus talent level of the player yields good/not great stats.

It's how we get these legendary players who's names live on forever, but when you do some research, you see other now-anonymous players who were just as productive or more so.  But they weren't big AND fast.  Their team went 4-7 instead of 10-1.  

Barkley was only 'special' because he ran like a 180 lb back at 230 lbs.  He had breakaway speed once he got to the 2nd level and he was a good receiver.  So maybe what he wasn't great at were skills that are hard to identify, like manuevering through the line for 3 yards instead of 1.

I think of those aspects of a RB as the "Emmitt Smith video game conundrum."  He was always productive, but by the attributes each player is broken down into and rated on, they don't add up for him.  Not fast.  Not a big tackle-breaker like a big guy.  But you have to rate him highly....

Guys like Barkley are great, and they'll always get picked first, yet the guys like Emmitt chug along, out-producing them.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #19 on: June 29, 2020, 07:20:38 PM »
You’re looking at the wrong season. OAM listed the 2011 season, when Ball got 307 carries and averaged 6.3 YPC. That season was impressive in its way, but not one you’d pluck as great beyond the sheer workload.

Barkley is a fascinating player. He was a masterful talent and a joy to watch. He was unreal explosive and not very efficient. Some of that can be about the OL. That Ball season was low on explosiveness, but apparently impossibly high on efficiency (I don’t have the good stats for back then). In theory, Barkley should have the effect that Clemson backs have where the RPOs make you lower usage, more productive per play, but Barkley was the less productive than many of those seasons, at least on a per carry basis.

His case is a deeply weird one.
Remember that Barkley was running behind a pretty terrible O-Line.  He was tackled so many times as soon as he got the ball in the backfield... :(

Big Beef Tacosupreme

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #20 on: June 29, 2020, 07:23:25 PM »
It may be weird, but I don't think it's all that rare - where the perceived, consensus talent level of the player yields good/not great stats.

It's how we get these legendary players who's names live on forever, but when you do some research, you see other now-anonymous players who were just as productive or more so.  But they weren't big AND fast.  Their team went 4-7 instead of 10-1. 

Barkley was only 'special' because he ran like a 180 lb back at 230 lbs.  He had breakaway speed once he got to the 2nd level and he was a good receiver.  So maybe what he wasn't great at were skills that are hard to identify, like manuevering through the line for 3 yards instead of 1.

I think of those aspects of a RB as the "Emmitt Smith video game conundrum."  He was always productive, but by the attributes each player is broken down into and rated on, they don't add up for him.  Not fast.  Not a big tackle-breaker like a big guy.  But you have to rate him highly....

Guys like Barkley are great, and they'll always get picked first, yet the guys like Emmitt chug along, out-producing them. 
What makes Saquon special is his incredible jump cut/change of direction.  

Check out this run:


https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/18397202

https://www.espn.com/video/clip/_/id/18397202

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: All-Decade ideas
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2020, 10:30:50 PM »
Sack guys in the 70s are going to be tough
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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