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Topic: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?

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medinabuckeye1

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After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« on: December 06, 2021, 11:45:42 AM »
In the eight years from 2014-2021 the B1G-E holds are rather slim 77-70 advantage in regular season cross-over games.  That amounts to a little less than one game per season and all but one of the seasons have been either tied or within one game:

  • 2014:  7-7
  • 2015:  7-7
  • 2016:  11-10 B1G-W
  • 2017:  13-8 B1G-E
  • 2018:  11-10 B1G-E
  • 2019:  11-10 B1G-E
  • 2020:  7-7
  • 2021:  11-10 B1G-E
That is obviously really close but the elephant in the room is the B1G-E's dominance of the B1GCG.  In these eight years the Buckeyes have won five B1GCG's while PSU, MSU, and M have won one each.  That is all eight.  the B1G-W is 0-8 with UW losing four and Iowa and Northwestern losing a couple each.  
Here are the regular-season cross-over game records:


I would group these as follows:
  • tOSU and M are 11+ games ahead.  
  • IA, PSU, and UW are 5-7 games ahead.  
  • MSU and NU are a game down.  
  • UNL, MN, IU, and IL are 2-5 games down.  
  • UMD, PU, and RU are 7+ games down.  

The reason for the B1GCG disparity shows up here pretty clearly.  Four of the seven B1G-E teams are in the top or bottom group (tOSU, M, UMD, RU) while only one of the B1G-W teams is in the bottom group and none in the top.  


Including the CG, here are the cross-overs:

So the top-3 and bottom-3 teams include five of the seven B1G-E teams and only one B1G-W team while the middle eight include the other two B1G-E teams and six of the seven B1G-W teams.  As we all already knew, the B1G-E has a better top and a worse bottom and the B1G-W is more competitive.  

Mdot21

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #1 on: December 06, 2021, 11:51:18 AM »
idk...i say leave it how it is.

rolltidefan

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #2 on: December 06, 2021, 11:59:00 AM »
maybe should try some other way, that avoids rivalries and has ridiculous names... something like... leaders and legends maybe?

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #3 on: December 06, 2021, 12:04:54 PM »
No. 

The geography is the geography. 

Leave it alone. 

rolltidefan

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #4 on: December 06, 2021, 12:08:54 PM »
No.

The geography is the geography.

Leave it alone.
but... but legends.
and leaders.
come on, at least think about it.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2021, 12:15:48 PM »
IMHO the problem you run into is the problem you always run into. Michigan and Ohio State.

Put them in the same division, and that division is automatically going to be the stronger division. Split them up, and suddenly you have to find a way to keep their annual rivalry and ALSO to keep their annual rivalry from resulting in a 2-game series the final week of the regular season and the CCG. 

If you keep Michigan and OSU in the same division and put PSU, MSU, and Wisconsin in the opposite division, you're as close as you can get to competitive balance as possible, but the winner of that division will likely always be an underdog to those two. On top of it, if you stack the rest of the M/OSU division with patsies, you'll get criticized for basically making their division come down to the M/OSU winner every year and giving them an easy road to the CFP. 

If we go to 16 and do the pods thing, this will all sorta resolve itself IMHO. UM and OSU can be in the same pod, and because their pod will rotate "division" alignment with the other three pods, they won't constantly be paired with the strongest of the other three pods, if there is one. 

Mdot21

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #6 on: December 06, 2021, 12:18:21 PM »
IMHO the problem you run into is the problem you always run into. Michigan and Ohio State.

Put them in the same division, and that division is automatically going to be the stronger division. Split them up, and suddenly you have to find a way to keep their annual rivalry and ALSO to keep their annual rivalry from resulting in a 2-game series the final week of the regular season and the CCG.

If you keep Michigan and OSU in the same division and put PSU, MSU, and Wisconsin in the opposite division, you're as close as you can get to competitive balance as possible, but the winner of that division will likely always be an underdog to those two. On top of it, if you stack the rest of the M/OSU division with patsies, you'll get criticized for basically making their division come down to the M/OSU winner every year and giving them an easy road to the CFP.

If we go to 16 and do the pods thing, this will all sorta resolve itself IMHO. UM and OSU can be in the same pod, and because their pod will rotate "division" alignment with the other three pods, they won't constantly be paired with the strongest of the other three pods, if there is one.
if it goes to 16, who are the two teams? that's the $64,000 question.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2021, 12:20:15 PM »
if it goes to 16, who are the two teams? that's the $64,000 question.
Don't really want to rehash that one again. We've debated, and debated, and debated on that. 

I'm just saying that with the current roster of 14 teams and two divisions, it's going to be hard to find anything that fixes the issue that medina has raised. 

utee94

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #8 on: December 06, 2021, 12:23:47 PM »
IMHO the problem you run into is the problem you always run into. Michigan and Ohio State.

Put them in the same division, and that division is automatically going to be the stronger division. Split them up, and suddenly you have to find a way to keep their annual rivalry and ALSO to keep their annual rivalry from resulting in a 2-game series the final week of the regular season and the CCG.

If you keep Michigan and OSU in the same division and put PSU, MSU, and Wisconsin in the opposite division, you're as close as you can get to competitive balance as possible, but the winner of that division will likely always be an underdog to those two. On top of it, if you stack the rest of the M/OSU division with patsies, you'll get criticized for basically making their division come down to the M/OSU winner every year and giving them an easy road to the CFP.

If we go to 16 and do the pods thing, this will all sorta resolve itself IMHO. UM and OSU can be in the same pod, and because their pod will rotate "division" alignment with the other three pods, they won't constantly be paired with the strongest of the other three pods, if there is one.

Yup.  No good solution unless/until you go to pods.  

iahawk15

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #9 on: December 06, 2021, 12:24:08 PM »
I personally like the idea of no divisions, 2-3 protected rivals, rotate everyone else through. Top 2 teams play in the CCG. Downside is the pearl-clutching possibility of OSU/UM in back-to-back weeks.

Also, it should not be considered until we have an expanded playoff. No need to cannibalize yourself out of a playoff spot.

Mdot21

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #10 on: December 06, 2021, 12:27:40 PM »
I personally like the idea of no divisions, 2-3 protected rivals, rotate everyone else through. Top 2 teams play in the CCG. Downside is the pearl-clutching possibility of OSU/UM in back-to-back weeks.

Also, it should not be considered until we have an expanded playoff. No need to cannibalize yourself out of a playoff spot.
agreed. SEC does a great job of ensuring they get two teams in by only playing 8 conference game schedules + 1 FCS tune-up. 

B1G should follow that lead until they expand the playoff.

utee94

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2021, 12:41:14 PM »
agreed. SEC does a great job of ensuring they get two teams in by only playing 8 conference game schedules + 1 FCS tune-up.

B1G should follow that lead until they expand the playoff.
And the SEC Cupcake weekend is late in the season, while other conferences are playing conference games, which further protects the ranked SEC teams from taking an unnecessary late season loss and ensures higher late-season rankings compared to their peers in other conferences.

If the goal is to try and place multiple teams into the playoff, then every conference should have started doing this long ago.

847badgerfan

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2021, 12:45:10 PM »
Leave it alone.
U RAH RAH! WIS CON SIN!

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: After eight years of B1G-E and B1G-W, do things need tweeked?
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2021, 01:04:37 PM »
This is only an issue because Nebraska has been so down

 

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