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Topic: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk

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Cincydawg

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #112 on: February 28, 2024, 08:15:23 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 08:11:30 AM
You can't do that with so many schools no longer requiring testing.
The majority of schools do, and some that dropped it are bringing it back.  I personally think it's more reliable than other "rankings".

But then you get some liberal arts private schools like Swarthmore near the top, which is fine, but they don't offer much by way of STEM if you're headed there.

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Cincydawg

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #113 on: February 28, 2024, 08:19:52 AM »
The top 12 colleges that don’t require standardized test scores include:
  • Princeton
  • Harvard
  • Yale
  • University of Chicago
  • Brown
  • Dartmouth
  • Northwestern
  • Dule
  • John Hopkins
  • Vanderbilt
  • Rice
  • Carnell
  • Columbia
  • Notre Dame
Which Colleges Don't Require SAT/ACT Scores for 2022-2023 Admissions? (prepscholar.com)
Which Colleges Don't Require SAT/ACT Scores for 2022-2023 Admissions? (prepscholar.com)

There are more than I thought, but a lot of these are small and down the list.  I think it's stupid not to use the data.

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FearlessF

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #114 on: February 28, 2024, 08:21:54 AM »
how did they rank the top 12?

obviously, some other metric
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847badgerfan

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #115 on: February 28, 2024, 08:24:58 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:12:47 AM
be cause they had some silly rule
Still, a champion or co-champion always went.

Not anymore.
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FearlessF

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #116 on: February 28, 2024, 08:27:34 AM »
yes, but when you can't send the same team the next season it encourages more participation

which was the obvious goal

someone here with more time than i could probably track how many times it happened
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847badgerfan

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #117 on: February 28, 2024, 08:54:10 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on February 28, 2024, 08:27:34 AM
yes, but when you can't send the same team the next season it encourages more participation

which was the obvious goal

someone here with more time than i could probably track how many times it happened
That was never a rule.
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #118 on: February 28, 2024, 09:27:45 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:15:23 AM
I personally think it's more reliable than other "rankings".
Of course test scores are more reliable than HS GPA because the tests are standardized, it is right there in the name, standardized tests.
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:19:52 AM
I think it's stupid not to use the data.
That is a feature not a bug. The people pushing this aren't actually stupid so when they do something that appears to be nonsensical, they are doing it for a reason. 
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #119 on: February 28, 2024, 09:33:31 AM »
Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 08:24:58 AM
Still, a champion or co-champion always went.

Not anymore.
Um, no.
Quote from: 847badgerfan on February 28, 2024, 08:54:10 AM
That was never a rule.
Yes, it was. They dropped it in the early 70's but before that the BigTen had a "no repeat" rule Vis-a-vis RoseBowl participation. 

For example, the Buckeyes won the league, RoseBowl, and National Championship in 1968. Then, in 1969, they were prohibited from going to the RoseBowl by the no repeat rule. They were also prohibited from going to any other Bowl by the RoseBowl only rule so their regular season finale against Schembechler's Wolverines was it, nothing after that regardless of outcome. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #120 on: February 28, 2024, 09:36:16 AM »
Somewhere I read that not using the SAT actually harmed black students from poor schools.  This is a "right leaning" rag, so take it for what it's not worth.

Dropping SAT from college admissions hurts minorities in the name of wokeness - Washington Examiner

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Cincydawg

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #121 on: February 28, 2024, 09:50:07 AM »
My guess, the ACC goes back and revises this GoR thing downward, in return for FSU/Cle agreeing not to leave for X years, say 5 maybe, and then they can depart scott free or nearly so.  Something like that.

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847badgerfan

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #122 on: February 28, 2024, 10:03:43 AM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on February 28, 2024, 09:33:31 AM
Um, no.Yes, it was. They dropped it in the early 70's but before that the BigTen had a "no repeat" rule Vis-a-vis RoseBowl participation.

For example, the Buckeyes won the league, RoseBowl, and National Championship in 1968. Then, in 1969, they were prohibited from going to the RoseBowl by the no repeat rule. They were also prohibited from going to any other Bowl by the RoseBowl only rule so their regular season finale against Schembechler's Wolverines was it, nothing after that regardless of outcome.
That's a LONG time ago. Back then, only one school was even allowed to go to a bowl game. I skip that era for a reason.
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Temp430

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #123 on: February 28, 2024, 11:23:32 AM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on February 28, 2024, 08:19:52 AM
The top 12 colleges that don’t require standardized test scores include:
  • Princeton
  • Harvard
  • Yale
  • University of Chicago
  • Brown
  • Dartmouth
  • Northwestern
  • Dule
  • John Hopkins
  • Vanderbilt
  • Rice
  • Carnell
  • Columbia
  • Notre Dame
Which Colleges Don't Require SAT/ACT Scores for 2022-2023 Admissions? (prepscholar.com)
Which Colleges Don't Require SAT/ACT Scores for 2022-2023 Admissions? (prepscholar.com)

There are more than I thought, but a lot of these are small and down the list.  I think it's stupid not to use the data.



The Ivy League schools Yale and Dartmouth re-instituted the standard test score requirements last week.  Something wasn't working I guess.
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Cincydawg

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #124 on: February 28, 2024, 02:01:59 PM »
 Last week, Yale announced that it would again require test scores from applicants, joining Dartmouth, M.I.T., Georgetown and Purdue, among others. At selective colleges like these, standardized test scores predict academic performance better than high school grades, research shows.
A crucial part of the test requirement, however, is that colleges give applicants credit for overcoming disadvantage. The colleges don’t expect top students from struggling high schools to do as well on the SAT as private school students. Lower-income students, after all, have been running with the wind in their faces.
“We know society is unequal,” Sian Beilock, Dartmouth’s president, told me. “We’re looking for the kids who are excelling in their environment.” Last week’s announcement by the Supreme Court means that schools (including those that don’t require test scores) can feel comfortable taking economic disadvantage into account.

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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: ACC Grant of Rights, expansion talk
« Reply #125 on: February 28, 2024, 02:28:21 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on February 27, 2024, 10:53:05 PM
On what planet and in what epoch has any collection of voters ever shown the tact or even willingness to do so?!?
You're talking about the past where we had a large number of teams playing in disparate conferences working towards a very limited playoff (2 teams in the BCS or 4 teams in the CFP), where any legitimate helmet is only playing 3-4 games a year at most against quality opponents. 

OF COURSE in that scenario you're not going to see an 8-4 team with hard SoS in a playoff, because there is no such team that could point to all 8 of those wins as quality and not a single of those four losses being a "bad loss". 

I'm talking about the future where the B1G/SEC consolidate, drop the weak schools while raiding anything of note from whatever exists outside them, and you have maybe somewhere between 20 on the low end and maybe 36 on the high end as schools in "big boy" college football. Those schools will ONLY play each other, no pastries, and probably have somewhere in the realm of a 12-14 team playoff. So you actually have parity, and every game is against a team that is at least within the same realm of talent. No FCS, no MAC, no Sun Belt. Only the big boys. 

In that world, a team could absolutely get into a playoff at 8-4 because for all we know the best record in the league might be at 10-2. 
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