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Topic: 5+1+2

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BrownCounty

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #112 on: December 04, 2018, 11:08:08 AM »

If an 8-team playoff is going to include a non-P5 team, then I'm all for keeping it at 4.

ELA

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #113 on: December 04, 2018, 11:15:27 AM »
that would be interesting but i'd miss the interconf matchups.
I can live without the 5 good ones a year, most of which occur in Week 1, in some bland NFL stadium.  I used to be in that camp, but the interconference home and home matchups that exist now aren't that great anyway.  So get rid of the couple of decent ones, because 95% of the game you are eliminating have zero interest to neutral fanbases, and replace them with 2 conference games.

ELA

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #114 on: December 04, 2018, 11:16:00 AM »
My constant suggestion for an NCAA "rule" would be to schedule 10 P5 teams on your slate each year, however you want to go about it.

Two pastries and ten P5 teams (which would include ND and perhaps a few other indies).  Navy might make some money off this scheme.
Well, Navy is in the Group of 5.  Army and BYU would certainly benefit though.

FearlessF

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #115 on: December 04, 2018, 11:20:42 AM »
If I was the commish I would do it.

So, can anything be done to get ACC, SEC, Pac and B1G to try and line up the style of scheduling?
yes, the B1G, PAC, and B12 can stoop to the lowest common denominator
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rolltidefan

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #116 on: December 04, 2018, 11:51:43 AM »
I can live without the 5 good ones a year, most of which occur in Week 1, in some bland NFL stadium.  I used to be in that camp, but the interconference home and home matchups that exist now aren't that great anyway.  So get rid of the couple of decent ones, because 95% of the game you are eliminating have zero interest to neutral fanbases, and replace them with 2 conference games.
i disagree. we had au/wash, nd/mich, bama/l'ville, wvu/tenn, lsu/miami, tex/maryland, osu/or st, clem/aTm, ucla/ou, miss st/k st, osu/tcu, usc/tex, ok st/boise. and this season didn't even feel like a loaded one. some of those ended in not great games, but the story lines leading into them were good.
i'd really miss those. though i do agree with wishing they'd mostly be on campus. hopefully bama's most recent additions to the schedule is a trend for us (both texas and nd scheduled for h and h series in 2020s).

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #117 on: December 04, 2018, 11:55:28 AM »
i think we're being blinded by how lucky we've been during the actual playoffs to not have crazy upsets. it's worked out really well. but that's not true for most of cfb history. it's very unusual, actually.
since 2000, these conf champs would have muddied the cfp by winning conf titles (record are pre-bowl games):
2000 - 8-3 purdue (either 1 loss oregon st or va tech would have been left out, both won their bowls over top ranked teams)
2001 - 9-3 lsu (but this works out decent as no 1 loss or better gets left out, though the final rank #3 (uf) and 4 (tenn) teams both get left out, but had 2 losses pre-bowl)
2002 - 9-4 fsu (again, works out as no 1-loss pre bowl get left out, but final rank #4 (usc), #5 (ou), #6 (tex) and #7 (k st) all get left out)
2003 - 11-3 k st (works out again, but #4 osu gets left out with 2 losses)
2004 - 8-3 pitt (1 loss cal, 1 loss #6 louisville (not a p5 at time, but lone loss was by 3 to #3 miami), and undefeated boise st
2005 - 8-4 fsu (no 1 loss, but #4, 5 and 7 all get left out)
2006 - no one really, maybe 2 loss wake? but either 1-loss mich or wiscsonsin plus #3 lsu (2 losses) get left out.
2007 - lots of 2-loss teams in, but none egregious, but 2 of #2 uga, 1 loss kansas, and #4 mizz get left out.
2008 - 9-4 vt (this is the real fustercluck, choose 2 of 0-loss utah and boise, 1 loss bama, texas, and texas tech)
2009 - really clean, but still gotta pick between undefeated tcu or boise
2010 - 4 loss uconn (leave out either 1 loss mich st or stanford)
2011 - 3-loss clemson and wvu (leaving out either 1 loss bama or stanford)
2012 - 5 loss wisk (1 loss uf and oregon both get left out) (undefeated osu not eligible, stupid ncaa)
2013 - finally one works out perfect, no bad admissions and no bad omissions either.
2014 - another really clean year with no real arguments.
2015 - 3 in a row!
2016 - 4! crazy.
2017 - 5 - this can't be, but it is
2018 - 3-loss washington, leave out 2 of 2-loss uga, wash st, and mich. some snub, but not huge.
the last 5 or so years would have worked out really good for a 5+1+2, but going back any further and it gets disastrous most seasons with bad omissions.
point is it's not a 1 in 1000 chance. in fact, it's probably a >50% chance, we've just been really lucky the last few years that it would have worked out nicely.
Well compared to what we have now, I would prefer it. Now it is Bama and Clemson's club and a few others are occasionally invited. I don't care if a 4 or 5 loss team upsets a undefeated or 1 loss team. If they do, they deserve a shot.

I'm not proposing the 5+1 model, I'm proposing a 5 team tournament based only on conf champs with the committee seeding the teams. 4 & 5 would play a "play in" game, and then run the tournament from there with the higher seeded team having a home game in the play in and the next round. 

What  this proposal addresses most is that everyone knows what it takes to get to the playoff from the start of the season. Win your division and then your conference championship game. If you don't, you have no complaints. No ESPN influence, no committee getting to say who was better and so on. Win your conference and you're in. If you can't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the NC.

rolltidefan

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #118 on: December 04, 2018, 12:05:22 PM »
Well compared to what we have now, I would prefer it. Now it is Bama and Clemson's club and a few others are occasionally invited. I don't care if a 4 or 5 loss team upsets a undefeated or 1 loss team. If they do, they deserve a shot.

I'm not proposing the 5+1 model, I'm proposing a 5 team tournament based only on conf champs with the committee seeding the teams. 4 & 5 would play a "play in" game, and then run the tournament from there with the higher seeded team having a home game in the play in and the next round.

What  this proposal addresses most is that everyone knows what it takes to get to the playoff from the start of the season. Win your division and then your conference championship game. If you don't, you have no complaints. No ESPN influence, no committee getting to say who was better and so on. Win your conference and you're in. If you can't win your conference, you don't deserve a shot at the NC.

i fully disagree, they don't deserve a shot.

Cincydawg

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #119 on: December 04, 2018, 12:10:05 PM »
I don't think a four loss conference champion should be considered, at all, ever.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #120 on: December 04, 2018, 12:14:41 PM »
i fully disagree, they don't deserve a shot.
We'll have to agree to disagree. 

I grew up thinking that winning the Big Ten and going the Rose Bowl was the goal and if tOSU made it, it was a successful season. We value'd conf championships. 
I guess that doesn't apply in the SEC. It appears that in the SEC, it's the playoffs for nothing. Oh well. 

FearlessF

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #121 on: December 04, 2018, 12:26:53 PM »
I don't think a four loss conference champion should be considered, at all, ever.
I don't think a 2-loss non-con champ should ever be cornsidered
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Cincydawg

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #122 on: December 04, 2018, 12:28:05 PM »
In very unusual years, a 2 loss non-conference champ might be the only viable option.


FearlessF

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #123 on: December 04, 2018, 12:30:28 PM »
because of these dastardly divisions and conference champ games
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

rolltidefan

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #124 on: December 04, 2018, 12:34:18 PM »
We'll have to agree to disagree.

I grew up thinking that winning the Big Ten and going the Rose Bowl was the goal and if tOSU made it, it was a successful season. We value'd conf championships.
I guess that doesn't apply in the SEC. It appears that in the SEC, it's the playoffs for nothing. Oh well.

no, it's goal #1, absolutely. and a sec title and sugar bowl birth was/is amazing.
but a 3-4 loss team, conf champ or not, should in no way be in consideration for a national title. at least not when much much better candidates exist.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 5+1+2
« Reply #125 on: December 04, 2018, 01:17:56 PM »
i think we're being blinded by how lucky we've been during the actual playoffs to not have crazy upsets. it's worked out really well. but that's not true for most of cfb history. it's very unusual, actually.
since 2000, these conf champs would have muddied the cfp by winning conf titles (record are pre-bowl games):
2000 - 8-3 purdue (either 1 loss oregon st or va tech would have been left out, both won their bowls over top ranked teams)
2001 - 9-3 lsu (but this works out decent as no 1 loss or better gets left out, though the final rank #3 (uf) and 4 (tenn) teams both get left out, but had 2 losses pre-bowl)
2002 - 9-4 fsu (again, works out as no 1-loss pre bowl get left out, but final rank #4 (usc), #5 (ou), #6 (tex) and #7 (k st) all get left out)
2003 - 11-3 k st (works out again, but #4 osu gets left out with 2 losses)
2004 - 8-3 pitt (1 loss cal, 1 loss #6 louisville (not a p5 at time, but lone loss was by 3 to #3 miami), and undefeated boise st
2005 - 8-4 fsu (no 1 loss, but #4, 5 and 7 all get left out)
2006 - no one really, maybe 2 loss wake? but either 1-loss mich or wiscsonsin plus #3 lsu (2 losses) get left out.
2007 - lots of 2-loss teams in, but none egregious, but 2 of #2 uga, 1 loss kansas, and #4 mizz get left out.
2008 - 9-4 vt (this is the real fustercluck, choose 2 of 0-loss utah and boise, 1 loss bama, texas, and texas tech)
2009 - really clean, but still gotta pick between undefeated tcu or boise
2010 - 4 loss uconn (leave out either 1 loss mich st or stanford)
2011 - 3-loss clemson and wvu (leaving out either 1 loss bama or stanford)
2012 - 5 loss wisk (1 loss uf and oregon both get left out) (undefeated osu not eligible, stupid ncaa)
2013 - finally one works out perfect, no bad admissions and no bad omissions either.
2014 - another really clean year with no real arguments.
2015 - 3 in a row!
2016 - 4! crazy.
2017 - 5 - this can't be, but it is
2018 - 3-loss washington, leave out 2 of 2-loss uga, wash st, and mich. some snub, but not huge.
the last 5 or so years would have worked out really good for a 5+1+2, but going back any further and it gets disastrous most seasons with bad omissions.
point is it's not a 1 in 1000 chance. in fact, it's probably a >50% chance, we've just been really lucky the last few years that it would have worked out nicely.
I think you need to look at it differently. The SEC and B12 had conference championship games going back to the 90's, but of the other P5 conferences, the ACC started in 2005, PAC-12 in 2011, and B1G in 2011. 
Then you can throw out UConn and WVU, because both were in the Big East which not only isn't a conference anymore, but also didn't have a CCG.
So 2000, 2002, and 2004 don't count as significantly. 2005, 2008 and 2011, the ACC had a weak champ get in who had won their CCG. 2012 was a weird year with both OSU and PSU ineligible, so you can sorta throw that out. Then you had 5 straight years before this year's Washington team. 
Conference championship games GREATLY reduce the odds that an undeserving team will make it in. 

 

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