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Topic: #5 Notre Dame (0-1) at #2 Ohio State (1-0, 0-0) Post Game

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nwms

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #42 on: August 30, 2022, 04:27:41 PM »
3 td shellacking.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #43 on: August 31, 2022, 10:44:58 PM »
In marquee home out of conference games, OSU is 1-3 since 2014, with the lone win against Cincinnati and losses to Virginia Tech, Oklahoma and Oregon. :o
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Cincydawg

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #44 on: September 01, 2022, 06:13:04 AM »
I had forgotten about that stat, fascinating indeed.  Two of those were shocking upsets.  Didn't they also lose to Texas at home back when?

ND is not chopped liver despite the two TD spread.

nwms

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #45 on: September 01, 2022, 06:27:50 AM »
nobody takes nd seriously in big games they can't even handle oklahoma st.  lbh if they won you'd question ohio st & this rd regime considering harbaugh just got them.

Cincydawg

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #46 on: September 01, 2022, 06:44:14 AM »
I wouldn't underestimate ND.  They strike me often as being very competitive with top teams.  They get a lot of attention when they aren't.

I agree OSU APPEARS to be far more potent on offense.  We could also remark that Ohio State shouldn't be taken seriously in Big games in week one ...

Mdot21

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #47 on: September 01, 2022, 04:56:13 PM »
In marquee home out of conference games, OSU is 1-3 since 2014, with the lone win against Cincinnati and losses to Virginia Tech, Oklahoma and Oregon. :o
very surprising. honestly early losses seem to have helped OSU- they get stuff figured out and then go on crazy runs. 

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #48 on: September 02, 2022, 08:48:46 AM »
I had forgotten about that stat, fascinating indeed.  Two of those were shocking upsets.  Didn't they also lose to Texas at home back when?

ND is not chopped liver despite the two TD spread.
Texas and USC under Tressel, yes. 
1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #49 on: September 02, 2022, 11:23:33 AM »
very surprising. honestly early losses seem to have helped OSU- they get stuff figured out and then go on crazy runs.
First, Cincinnati isn't a "marquee" game so the Buckeyes aren't 1-3 in such OOC games at home since beating Miami in 2010, they are 0-3:
  • 2021, lost to Oregon 
  • 2017, lost to Oklahoma 
  • 2014, lost to VaTech
And it gets worse because prior to that:
  • 2010, beat Miami, FL
  • 2009, lost to USC
  • 2005, lost to Texas
  • 2003, beat Washington 

Going back to the beginning of the Tressel era the Buckeyes are just 2-5 in "marquee" home OOC games.

IMHO, this is just a random thing. Over that same time they beat Oklahoma, VaTech, and Texas on the road. That isn't because the Buckeyes are better on the road or have negative HFA, it is just random. 


Cincydawg

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #50 on: September 02, 2022, 11:27:08 AM »
In 50-50 games, say under a 5 point spread more or less, I can see random, but when the spread is 10+, it starts to look like a something.

Obviously many of those were 50-50 games, a couple were not.

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #51 on: September 02, 2022, 11:49:33 AM »
All due respect Medina- but I don’t know where your getting your confidence from.  I’m not saying that you may not turn out to be correct, I’m just curious as hell how you’re there already.

Lastly, it’s not uncommon for Ohio State to take several games to get into a rhythm on both sides of the ball. Rarely do they look super good in the early games.
To say that they’re an NC caliber team in my opinion is very premature. Certainly you could say they have the potential to be there but until I see something with my own eyes I won’t actually believe it. Therefore I expect a close game. I would love to be wrong about all of this.
This comment has been grating on me all week because while it wasn't stated explicitly, I think the implication is that I'm some wildly and irrationally optimistic "homer" and here comes @Honestbuckeye as the rational voice reason. That is exactly the opposite of reality.

The national media and coaches both have Ohio State at #2. That isn't a bunch of home team fanboys, those are people from all over the country.

The wise guys in Vegas say tOSU by more than two TD's.

Closer to home, in our Power Rankings all but one voter has tOSU at #1. The lone exception is a pessimistic Ohio State fan. Those who have tOSU #1 include fans of Purdue, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Alabama, and Indiana.

Nothing you said is extremely unlikely but all of your analysis leans toward the worst-case-scenario for Ohio State. The internal inconsistency is glaring:

Ohio State replaces most of their defensive staff so you assume that it will take a long time to learn the new system. Certainly possible but Notre Dame replaces not only their defensive staff but also their offensive staff and their HC and you apparently think that their transition will be completely seamless.

It is entirely possible that tOSU's defensive coaching transition will involve painful growing pains and it is entirely possible that Notre Dame's coaching transition will be seamless but a more realistic and unbiased analyst would assume either:
  • That both will involve painful growing pains, or
  • That both will be seamless.

You've chosen to assume the worst for tOSU in both cases. That isn't the rational voice of reason, it is the pessimistic view, I call it the anti-homer view.

As I said above, nothing you have said is altogether ridiculous or outside the realm of reasonable possibilities so you *COULD* end up being right. The thing is that you ALWAYS take the pessimistic view of the Buckeyes so if you do end up being right it won't be because yours is the voice of reason, it will be for the same reason that broken clocks are right twice a day.


Honestbuckeye

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #52 on: September 02, 2022, 03:33:41 PM »
This comment has been grating on me all week because while it wasn't stated explicitly, I think the implication is that I'm some wildly and irrationally optimistic "homer" and here comes @Honestbuckeye as the rational voice reason. That is exactly the opposite of reality.

The national media and coaches both have Ohio State at #2. That isn't a bunch of home team fanboys, those are people from all over the country.

The wise guys in Vegas say tOSU by more than two TD's.

Closer to home, in our Power Rankings all but one voter has tOSU at #1. The lone exception is a pessimistic Ohio State fan. Those who have tOSU #1 include fans of Purdue, Wisconsin, Ohio State, Iowa, Michigan, Michigan State, Alabama, and Indiana.

Nothing you said is extremely unlikely but all of your analysis leans toward the worst-case-scenario for Ohio State. The internal inconsistency is glaring:

Ohio State replaces most of their defensive staff so you assume that it will take a long time to learn the new system. Certainly possible but Notre Dame replaces not only their defensive staff but also their offensive staff and their HC and you apparently think that their transition will be completely seamless.

It is entirely possible that tOSU's defensive coaching transition will involve painful growing pains and it is entirely possible that Notre Dame's coaching transition will be seamless but a more realistic and unbiased analyst would assume either:
  • That both will involve painful growing pains, or
  • That both will be seamless.

You've chosen to assume the worst for tOSU in both cases. That isn't the rational voice of reason, it is the pessimistic view, I call it the anti-homer view.

As I said above, nothing you have said is altogether ridiculous or outside the realm of reasonable possibilities so you *COULD* end up being right. The thing is that you ALWAYS take the pessimistic view of the Buckeyes so if you do end up being right it won't be because yours is the voice of reason, it will be for the same reason that broken clocks are right twice a day.


Wow.  I think I just got told off.

Not sure why.  I am not pessimistic about My Buckeyes.  I am quite optimistic

I just am not assuming they will walk out on the field and be as good defensively as they may be later. 

Sorry if a different opinion grates on you. 

Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
-Mark Twain

Cincydawg

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #53 on: September 02, 2022, 03:34:36 PM »
You guys have somewhat different perspectives, both of which are valid, and that is why we're here.

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #54 on: September 02, 2022, 04:00:48 PM »


HB and Medina were all like 

1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

medinabuckeye1

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Re: #5 Notre Dame (0-0) at #2 Ohio State (0-0, 0-0) Game Week
« Reply #55 on: September 02, 2022, 04:34:34 PM »
Wow.  I think I just got told off.

Not sure why.  I am not pessimistic about My Buckeyes.  I am quite optimistic

I just am not assuming they will walk out on the field and be as good defensively as they may be later. 

Sorry if a different opinion grates on you.
You are most definitely NOT optimistic. As recounted above the national media, national coaches, wise guys, and posters here all generally see tOSU as a NC Contender.

Therefore, that is a reasonable expectation. Your projection of basically "I just hope they beat ND" is pessimistic.

I'm cautiously optimistic about the defense but for this game I'm not sure how much it matters. Last year's team went 11-2 with a crap defense and I think this year's offense will be better so even with no defensive improvement they should beat a Notre Dame team with a brand new first-time HC.

It isn't a different opinion that grated on me, it was the presentation. As I said above, I read your response to my first post in this thread as:
This comment has been grating on me all week because while it wasn't stated explicitly, I think the implication is that I'm some wildly and irrationally optimistic "homer" and here comes @Honestbuckeye as the rational voice reason. That is exactly the opposite of reality.
Maybe that wasn't how you meant it, but that was how I read it and it bothered me specifically because it inverts reality. In reality my view is the consensus of the national media, the national coaches, the board members here, the wise guys, etc. You are the one with a view wildly different from all of us.

You might turn out to be right and your opinion certainly doesn't bother me. What did bother me was the implication that I was living alone in some fanatic's fantasy land. The national consensus is by definition NOT a lone fanatic's fantasy land. It could certainly end up being wrong (it usually is for between one and three of the preseason top-10) but it isn't irrational or unrealistic.

You obviously disagree with the national consensus but please don't state that in a way that implies that I am the outlier. In fact YOU are the outlier.

If you disagree with the consensus then say so. Say "I think the AP voters, the Coaches poll voters, the Wise Guys in Vegas, and most members of this board are wrong. I think the Buckeyes are probably a 7-5 (or whatever your projection would be) team this year."

 

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