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Topic: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game

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MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #112 on: November 26, 2018, 06:29:54 PM »
Quote from: medinabuckeye1 on November 26, 2018, 05:27:56 PM
To get to a truly back-and-forth rivalry you have to go back to the early 1980's:
  • Ohio State won in 1984
  • Michigan won in 1983
  • Ohio State won two in 1981-82
  • Michigan won in 1980
  • Ohio State won in 1979
  • Michigan won three in 1976-78
  • Ohio State won two in 1974-75
  • The teams tied in 1973
  • Ohio State won in 1972
  • Michigan won in 1971
  • Ohio State won in 1970
  • Michigan won in 1969
  • Ohio State won two in 1967-1968
  • Michigan won in 1966
  • Ohio State won in 1965
  • Michigan won in 1964

For the 21 years from 1964-1984 Ohio State led 11-9-1 but neither team won more than three straight so it really was back-and-forth.  
John Cooper I screamed after 3 straight L's to the TUN for his head and was hardly the only one
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Mdot21

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #113 on: November 26, 2018, 07:00:38 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on November 26, 2018, 06:29:54 PM
John Cooper I screamed after 3 straight L's to the TUN for his head and was hardly the only one
Cooper is exactly who Harbaugh is tracking as at this point.
Which is weird as hell because the guy was an elite NFL coach and built Stanford into a power and got the better of Carroll’s USC juggernaut..
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Mdot21

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #114 on: November 26, 2018, 07:03:02 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on November 26, 2018, 06:27:08 PM
Ya Brown didn't adjust - you have to try.But Schiano didn't either earlier in the year.ND certainly did when SC grabbed a 10-0 lead Sat.Nite,dropped some linemen sent an LB or two.Have to be creative and go with the flow.JH has made some decent hires but has to get rid of the deadwood,go out and get Kingsbury if possible.Supposedly Leach interested in returning to Tech
Brown never adjusts. It’s maybe his only flaw and his biggest weakness. He’s a stubborn sob who believes in man to man. 
Harbaugh isn’t smart enough to hire Kingsbury. That hire would do wonders for Shea and those WRs though.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #115 on: November 26, 2018, 08:48:56 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on November 26, 2018, 07:03:02 PM
Brown never adjusts. It’s maybe his only flaw and his biggest weakness. He’s a stubborn sob who believes in man to man.
Harbaugh isn’t smart enough to hire Kingsbury. That hire would do wonders for Shea and those WRs though.
Did you guys read the attachment by Entropy?  It is really good and specifically discusses the adjustments Brown made. They worked for a few plays but then Day and Wilson tweaked what they were doing and it was hard to defend.
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Mdot21

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #116 on: November 27, 2018, 01:39:55 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on November 26, 2018, 08:48:56 PM
Did you guys read the attachment by Entropy?  It is really good and specifically discusses the adjustments Brown made. They worked for a few plays but then Day and Wilson tweaked what they were doing and it was hard to defend.
didn't read it yet, but I'll get to it.
Brown adjusted a bit but then went right back to his man across the board. It's his MO. Same thing vs Penn State last year when he mixed in zone looks and had some success. David Long was in a zone coverage which confused McSorley and led to a pick. Then Brown went right back to man across the board and slow 4.9-40 LB Mike McCray got torched in man to man by Saquon Barkley for a TD. Why he was ever asked to man up someone like Barkley is insane to me. Barkley was the #2 pick in the draft and a freak of nature. McCray is going to lose that battle literally 10 out of 10 times.
Brown's scheme is only great against teams with inferior offenses. Against teams with good QB's and high powered offenses it gets destroyed. As it should. LB's and Safeties and 3rd corners have no business being in so much man coverage. Those are match ups you're going to lose 99% of the time vs the really good offenses.
Brown's scheme only works vs the really good offenses if you've got two Jaylon Smith's at LB'er, freak athletes at safety like Ed Reed, and 3 CB's that are man to man lock down corners. Who the hell has rosters like that? Not even Bama has that. I love Devin Bush, but he has no business covering a RB on a wheel route in man coverage or a slot WR. Josh Mettelus and Brandon Watson both had their best seasons yet and made huge improvements but both are very limited athletically.
Dax Hill is by far the most athletic safety they've recruited in a long time. But he's one piece. Not sure they have another safety who can hold up in all the man to man and not sure they'll ever find a LB'er that can do it. Guys like Jaylon Smith don't grow on trees.
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Entropy

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #117 on: November 27, 2018, 01:47:50 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on November 26, 2018, 06:27:08 PM
Ya Brown didn't adjust - you have to try.But Schiano didn't either earlier in the year.ND certainly did when SC grabbed a 10-0 lead Sat.Nite,dropped some linemen sent an LB or two.Have to be creative and go with the flow.JH has made some decent hires but has to get rid of the deadwood,go out and get Kingsbury if possible.Supposedly Leach interested in returning to Tech
the link I shared above actually proved Brown did adjust.   The issue is Brown's adjustments either were predicted by OSU or OSU had very quick answers.   Brown was consistently playing catch up to OSU's offense.
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Entropy

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #118 on: November 27, 2018, 01:49:50 PM »
btw.. most offenses work better when the QB has time.    When a QB doesn't have time, offenses work less than designed.    More credit should be given to OSU's OL.   Michigan's DL was held in check.   Gary was a non factor.
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HailHailMSP

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #119 on: November 27, 2018, 02:02:42 PM »
Great article. I like the analytical chess match look at the game within the game. 

The problem with Michigan's defense is, even if Brown made big adjustments at different points in the game, they weren't adjustments the defense was used to because they have only played one type of system all year (Man Press). There were two instances where it failed them when they shifted to a zone. Metellus checked off an underneath crossing route by Campbell to Bush. Bush had cheated way too far up and got caught late on the crossing route for a big gainer on a 3rd down. There was also a post route td that the safety didn't pick up because they were stuck in the man coverage mindset. 

He is going to have to shift the defense in a few games throughout the year, so they are prepared to shift when it matters.

The best passing offense Michigan saw going into the Ohio State game was Indiana. Michigan showed a lot flaws in that game. They got magnified against Ohio State.
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #120 on: November 27, 2018, 02:18:32 PM »
Michigan's best streak was obviously before OSU joined the Big Ten.

They won the first game in 1897, which remains OSU's worst season in school history.

They played every year from 1900-1912.

The first game in that stretch ended in a tie. Michigan finished 4th in the Big Ten, and OSU split a "State Championship" with two other teams.

Fielding Yost was hired in 1901. Michigan won that game en route to an undefeated Big Ten season capped with a win in the first Rose Bowl.

From 1902-06 Michigan was in the Big Ten and OSU was in the newly formed OAC. Michigan swept OSU during that stretch, and won the Big Ten all but one year. OSU won an OAC Title in 06, but lost to Michigan 6-0.

From 1907-12 Michigan was Independent while OSU remained in the OAC. Michigan went 5-0-1 vs OSU over that stretch, including a 14-0 win over OSU's 1912 OAC Title team. The lone tie was in 1910 where Michigan went undefeated, albeit with 3 wins and 3 ties.

So Michigan was 12-0-2 over OSU before OSU joined the Big Ten.

The series went on hiatus from 1913-1917, as a condition of OSU's admission into the Big Ten.

Michigan won the first "Big Ten" game between the two schools in 1918, during Chic Harley's one year hiatus from football. Harley returned to OSU in 1919 for his senior year, and led OSU to their first victory over the Wolverines in school history; kicking off a three game winning streak for the good guys. 

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1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
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1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #121 on: November 27, 2018, 03:31:10 PM »
Looking back from today:
  • Ohio State's largest advantage is 13 games (15-2) over the last 18 years (17 games due to 2010 vacated)
  • Michigan's largest advantage is 8 games (58-50-6) over the last 122 years (114 games)
  • Within the lifespan of every person born on or after October 24, 1908 the Buckeyes have an advantage in the series.  Thus, if you are less than 110 years old, the Buckeyes have an advantage in your lifetime.  
The series since:
  • Ohio State leads by 13 games (15-2) since John Cooper was fired / Jim Tressel hired (back to 2001 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 7 games (17-10-1) since Bo Schembechler retired (back to 1990 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 6 games (22-16-1) since Woody was fired (back to 1979 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 5 games (26-21-2) since Bo Schembechler was hired (back to 1969 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 11 games (38-27-2) since Woody was hired (back to 1951 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 6 games (38-32-3) since the end of WWII (back to 1945 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 7 games (40-33-3) since the Germans bombed Pear Harbor (back to 1942 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 7 games (46-39-4) since the Wall Street Crash of 1929 (back to 1929 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 5 games (50-45-4) since the first Ohio State win in the series (back to 1919 game)
  • Ohio State leads by 4 games (50-46-4) in Conference games (back to 1918 game) (Also since WWI began and ended because the two teams did not play 1913-1917 which included all of WWI
  • The series is tied in the last 105 games (back to 1908 game)
  • The most recent contiguous timeframe over which Michigan holds an advantage in the series is October 26, 1907 through today (back to 1907 game).  
  • Michigan leads by 4 games (54-50-5) in the lifespan of the oldest currently living American (back to 1904 game)

There are currently 25 people alive in the United States who were born prior to the 1907 Ohio State/Michigan game.  They are the only people in the country in whose lifetime the Wolverines hold an advantage over the Buckeyes:
  • One was born between the 1903 and 1904 games.  In her lifetime Michigan holds a 4 game advantage.  
  • Four were born between the 1904 and 1905 games.  In their lifetimes Michigan holds a 3 game advantage (53-50-5)
  • Six were born between the 1905 and 1906 games.  In their lifespans Michigan holds a 2 game advantage (52-20-5)
  • 14 were born between the 1906 and 1907 games.  In their lifespans Michigan holds a 1 game advantage (51-50-5)
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medinabuckeye1

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #122 on: November 27, 2018, 03:35:29 PM »
<br /><br /><br /><br />
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MrNubbz

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #123 on: November 27, 2018, 03:39:08 PM »
Quote from: Entropy on November 27, 2018, 01:47:50 PM
the link I shared above actually proved Brown did adjust.   The issue is Brown's adjustments either were predicted by OSU or OSU had very quick answers.   Brown was consistently playing catch up to OSU's offense.
Between Campbell(192 yds),Olave(48yds),Dixon(31yds),Hill(51yds),McCall(44yds) mostly crossing routes it didnt look like zone but I was at a Sports Pub so hard to tell above the din
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #124 on: November 27, 2018, 03:47:53 PM »


Wahoo! Wahoo! was mainly in use from at least 1890 (1889 as a cheer), until sometime during the 1920s. It should be noted that in 1902, the University of Michigan came up with their own lyrics for Wahoo! Wahoo!, in order to taunt the Buckeyes, in Ann Arbor. It must have worked, as Ohio State lost the game 86-0; the worse loss in Ohio State football history. Maybe it was just as well, because as the result of that game came the inspiration for Carmen Ohio.


I wonder what the alternate lyrics were that Michigan came up with? 

Here's how it originally went. 

Wahoo! Wahoo!
Wahoo! Wahoo!
Rip! Zip! Bazoo!
I yell! I yell for O. S. U.!
Wahoo! Wahoo!
Waho! Waho!
Rip! Zip! Bazo!
I yell! I yell for Ohio!
Waho! Waho!
Alternative 2nd Verse:
Oh how he flew, Oh how he flew,
He flew, he flew for O. S. U.
Oh how he flew.
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1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

Brutus Buckeye

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Re: #4 Michigan (8-1, 10-2) at #10 Ohio State (8-1, 11-1) Post Game
« Reply #125 on: November 27, 2018, 06:57:35 PM »

Father Harbaugh wants a banner. 

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WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19
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