2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

[medinabuckeye1]

With the win over Alabama and blowout of Santa Clara there is a chance that tOSU will move into the rankings.

[MaximumSam]

With the win over Alabama and blowout of Santa Clara there is a chance that tOSU will move into the rankings.

They are up to 30 on Torvik and 24 on KenPom. 

[medinabuckeye1]

They are up to 30 on Torvik and 24 on KenPom.

Shouldn't be seriously tested again until December 16 in Atlanta against UCLA.

Then another tune up, then WVU in Cleveland on December 30.

[medinabuckeye1]

On Monday Purdue will become the first BIG team to be ranked #1 3 years in a row.  I was surprised no other BIG team had accomplished that.

Yep, Purdue is #1 in both polls.

Illinois is #24 in both polls.

Michigan State is #25 in the Coaches and 6th ORV in the AP, just behind:

Ohio State is just outside of both polls, 4th in ORV in the AP and 9th ORV in the coaches.

Nebraska has votes in the AP and unless I missed one, that is it for the league.

[ELA]

Updated KenPom

#2 Purdue
#20 Michigan State
#24 Wisconsin
#25 Ohio State
#27 Illinois
#40 Iowa
#46 Nebraska
#54 Michigan
#57 Maryland
#60 Northwestern
#62 Rutgers
#75 Indiana
#95 Penn State
#136 Minnesota

[medinabuckeye1]

Updated KenPom
#95 Penn State
#136 Minnesota

Ohio State's schedule is frustrating. 

Their two December league games are the two above, the worst two teams in the league.

Then their OOC is a few really good teams (aTm, Bama, UCLA) and a whole lot of crap. 

It makes it very hard to evaluate the team because I'm always hesitant to put too much stock in one game. Maybe tOSU is really good and they just had an off night against aTm? Maybe they aren't good at all and just had a monster night against Bama?

[MaximumSam]

Ohio State's schedule is frustrating.

Their two December league games are the two above, the worst two teams in the league.

Then their OOC is a few really good teams (aTm, Bama, UCLA) and a whole lot of crap.

It makes it very hard to evaluate the team because I'm always hesitant to put too much stock in one game. Maybe tOSU is really good and they just had an off night against aTm? Maybe they aren't good at all and just had a monster night against Bama?

TAMU is pretty good and a very veteran team. You can have a pretty good night and still lose to them. The Bucks are young and I would expect some inconsistency. The main thing is whether they can keep up the defensive intensity - that has been the weakness for Holtmann, but also why he's starting Okpara over Key. He hasn't had a rim protector the entire time he's been at OSU, nor a point guard as good as Thornton. 

[ELA]

I also think this is OSU's deepest team in a minute.  They've been held up by an elite freshman talent, kind of covering some other problems.  Not enough shooting, not enough depth.  I think this team is going to be comfortably in the tournament 

[ELA]

Massey composite rankings (27 rankings - last week in parenthesis)

• PURDUE (1)
• Arizona (4)
• Houston (3)
• Connecticut (6)
• Marquette (8)
• Kansas (2)
• Alabama (5)
• Tennessee (11)
• Duke (10)
• Baylor (13)
• Gonzaga (7)
• BYU (19)
• Texas A&M (12)
• Creighton (9)
• Villanova (-)
• Mississippi State (16)
• North Carolina (21)
• Kentucky (14)
• Florida Atlantic (-)
• San Diego State (15)
• Miami (22)
• Oklahoma (-)
• OHIO STATE (-)
• Iowa State (18)
• Texas (20)

• 26. Michigan State (25)
• 30. Illinois (38)
• 33. Wisconsin (53)
• 37. Iowa (32)
• 46. Nebraska (54)
• 59. Northwestern (55)
• 61. Indiana (66)
• 63. Rutgers (59)
• 64. Michigan (34)
• 73. Penn State (57)
• 78. Maryland (78)
• 130. Minnesota (118)

[medinabuckeye1]

Massey composite rankings (27 rankings - last week in parenthesis)

• PURDUE (1)

OHIO STATE (-)[/list]

• 26. Michigan State (25)
• 30. Illinois (38)
• 33. Wisconsin (53)
• 37. Iowa (32)
• 46. Nebraska (54)
• 59. Northwestern (55)
• 61. Indiana (66)
• 63. Rutgers (59)
• 64. Michigan (34)
• 73. Penn State (57)
• 78. Maryland (78)
• 130. Minnesota (118)

I know this will change as the season progresses but it is interesting how it breaks down at this point:

• We have the best team in the country
• No B1G teams in the next 21 slots (2-22)
• Nearly half the league in the next 24 slots (23-46)

So if this were to hold up, Purdue wouldn't have any serious competition but the six teams in this 23-46 range are all in a place where they'll be clear underdogs against the Boilers but they are good enough that if they have a good game and Purdue has a off day, they can knock them off.

[medinabuckeye1]

TAMU is pretty good and a very veteran team. You can have a pretty good night and still lose to them. The Bucks are young and I would expect some inconsistency. The main thing is whether they can keep up the defensive intensity - that has been the weakness for Holtmann, but also why he's starting Okpara over Key. He hasn't had a rim protector the entire time he's been at OSU, nor a point guard as good as Thornton.

I get that and I'll add that according to KenPom Bama is better than aTm which further muddies the waters because Ohio State lost to aTm at home and beat Bama on a "neutral" court MUCH closer to Alabama than Ohio.  

My complaint (don't worry, not a Holtmann rant) is with the scheduling.  Here are the 13 teams Ohio State has played or will play before the New Year ranked by KenPom:

• #8 Bama, N W 92-81
• #18 aTm, H L 73-66
• #32 UCLA, N 12/16
• #95 Penn State, A 12/9
• #105 West Virginia, N (sorta) 12/30
• #124 Santa Clara, N W 86-56
• #132 Oakland, H W 79-73
• #137 Minnesota, H 12/3
• #271 Miami, OH, H 12/6
• #273 WMU, H W 73-56
• #280 New Orleans, H 12/21
• #294 Merrimack, H W 76-52
• #305 CMU, H 11/29

What I don't like about it is that, as I see it, it is difficult to learn much of anything about the team from games against teams 4-13 above because they are just awful.  That only leaves three games and that is such a small sample size that it isn't remotely reliable.  

In football where they can sell out the Stadium even for games against Directional-Michigan I get it but this isn't football and they aren't selling out the arena for these crap games so I think they are not only annoying the fans but also losing money.  Attendance for home games so far:

• 12,704 vs aTm
• 9,505 vs WMU
• 9,244 vs Oakland
• 7,929 vs Merrimack

The extra thousand to fifteen-hundred fans for WMU and Oakland as opposed to Merrimack are probably the result simply of the fact that Oakland and WMU are close enough that a few of their fans may have attended.  

The 12,704 for aTm is disappointing to be sure.  No need to argue about reasons for it right now.  

[bayareabadger]

Ohio State's schedule is frustrating.

Their two December league games are the two above, the worst two teams in the league.

Then their OOC is a few really good teams (aTm, Bama, UCLA) and a whole lot of crap.

It makes it very hard to evaluate the team because I'm always hesitant to put too much stock in one game. Maybe tOSU is really good and they just had an off night against aTm? Maybe they aren't good at all and just had a monster night against Bama?

So you just get to watch some ball.

The eval will be in the standings in March and the tournament run. The rest is just a chance to watch some kids play hard.

[medinabuckeye1]

So you just get to watch some ball.

The eval will be in the standings in March and the tournament run. The rest is just a chance to watch some kids play hard.

I'm ok with that to a point, I'm just saying that nobody cares about games against:

• #271 Miami, OH, H 12/6
• #273 WMU, H W 73-56
• #280 New Orleans, H 12/21
• #294 Merrimack, H W 76-52
• #305 CMU, H 11/29

Playing these games in a <half full arena in front of fans fighting off yawns is understandable to a point but, IMHO five of these games is too many. Two of them should have been traded for the home and away halves of H&H's with power league "name brand" opponents. 

By name brand, I don't just mean CBB Blue Bloods. Sure, I'd love H&H's with Carolina/Dook/Kentucky/Kansas but aTm or Bama are fine here. Just a name that the average fan has at least heard of, not Merrimack, New Orleans, or  MAC school.

[medinabuckeye1]

FWIW:
My scheduling rant shouldn't just be directed at Ohio State, the league has a lot of crappy games particularly this week:

• RU, UW, and NU all unsurprisingly won by 20+ on Monday
• MSU is favored by 28.5 tonight.  
• UMD is favored by 17 tonight.  
• Purdue is undefeated and #1 and tonight they are playing . . . a winless team.  
• Ohio State is favored by 23.5 Wednesday.