2023-2024 B1G Basketball Thread

[847badgerfan]

5. MN

[medinabuckeye1]

5. MN

You are probably right. 

PSU may be there with them.

[847badgerfan]

Yeah, them too. They lost everything.

[bayareabadger]

Obviously my post was an exaggeration but so is yours. 

Gonzaga doesn't have to be better than "half the college programs in the country" to win their conference.  They only have to be better than the other programs that make up their league and those are not very impressive:

• 2019 only two of their teams were in the top-68 per NET and that includes Gonzaga so to win the league they only had to beat out one decent team. 
• 2021 three of their teams were in the top-68 per NET.  That includes #1 Gonzaga along with #20 and #62 so they only had to beat out one, MAYBE two decent teams. 
• 2022 was a surprisingly good year for them, they had four in  the top-68 so Gonzaga had to beat out three decent teams.  Gonzaga was #1, the others were #19, #28, and #50. 
• 2023 only two of their teams were in the top-68 per NET and that includes Gonzaga so to win the league they only had to beat out one decent team. 

Yes, I was exaggerating but the fact that Gonzaga plays in a crap league remains.  For comparison here are the number of NET top-68 teams from serious leagues:

• 2023:  B12 10/10, B1G 11/14, SEC 9/14, ACC 7/15, B-East 5/11, P12 5/12
• 2022:  B12 9/10, SEC 9/14, B-East 7/11, B1G 8/14, P12 5/12, ACC 6/15
• 2021:  B1G 10/14, B12 7/10, SEC 9/14, ACC 9/15, B-East 6/11, P12 5/12
• 2019:  B12 8/10, B1G 11/14, SEC 9/14, ACC 9/15, B-East 6/10, P12 4/12

Playing a good team in the WCC is a rarity.  If you are Gonzaga it is even rarer because you don't have to play yourself.  They have only a handful of league games annually against competent teams.  The rest of their league games are the equivalent to the crap early-season OOC games that we complain our teams play too many of.

You seem to misunderstand.

There are 30-plus conferences. The WCC is usually the 10th to 12th best. If you looks at the 18-20 or so below them, none have some team stringing together 10 trips in a row, let alone 20.

But how can that be? A high school team in a weak conference could make the dance all the time in the WCC. Yet somehow, it’s not happening anywhere else.

And even more interesting, the WCC has a second consistently good team. That team, St Mary’s, would be the heavy favorite in at least 15 conferences most years.

I get that the existence of Gonazaga makes you sore. But getting to the dance that many times in a row is pretty impressive. Would it be moreso in the Big Ten? Probably? But a different beast. MSU’s streak would’ve been snapped in half of 19-14 wasn’t good enough some years, but it is.

[medinabuckeye1]

You seem to misunderstand.

There are 30-plus conferences. The WCC is usually the 10th to 12th best. If you looks at the 18-20 or so below them, none have some team stringing together 10 trips in a row, let alone 20.

Gonzaga's and Michigan State's accomplishment is a completely different type.

Gonzaga plays in a weak league so making the tournament even in an off year is only a matter of not getting upset by the really bad teams and then beating out a handful of competent opponents.

Their consistency is mildly impressive but considering the opposition, frankly not very.

Your reference to the 18+ worse conferences illustrates what is truly odd about the Gonzaga situation. Over the past ~30 years Gonzaga has been one of the best teams in CBB. The oddity is that there is no other team even close to as good in a conference even close to as bad.

It is different when Michigan State has an off year. They still have to go out and play in a league in which the majority (and usually super-majority) of their opponents are pretty good.

But how can that be? A high school team in a weak conference could make the dance all the time in the WCC. Yet somehow, it’s not happening anywhere else.

I already conceded that the HS thing was an exaggeration.

It is only a question of consistently being the tallest midget. Gonzaga has of course generally been more than that, but all it takes to keep their streak alive in an off year is to be the tallest midget or to be one of the tallest midgets and pull off one upset in the league tournament.

That, to me, is not nearly as MSU managing to go .500+ every single year in a league full of competent opponents.

What I can't stand about Gonzaga is that nobody seems to consider the pathetic weakness of their schedule.  They play a few top teams early but overall their OOC isn't usually much better than the other top teams. The difference is that the other top teams spend their conference seasons playing good teams week in and week out. Gonzaga spends their conference seasons fattening up on cupcakes.

[ELA]

Initial tiers, proposal:

• PU, MSU
• UMD, IL, UW, IU
• tOSU, NU, IA, RU
• M, UNL, PSU, MN

Thoughts?

Based on where the gaps are...

1-Purdue, MSU
2-Maryland, Illinois
3-Wisconsin, Indiana, OSU
4-NW, Iowa, Rutgers, Michigan
5-Nebraska, PSU
6-Minnesota

Also, I havent followed that closely.  So I know the new Minnesota coach basically took over an empty roster. But it seemed like he did more with less initially.  Is he just not building a roster at all

[medinabuckeye1]

How long is Izzo going to stay and is there a succession plan? If I am reading it right, the upcoming 23/24 season will be his 29th at the helm in East Lansing (I was a student at Ohio State when he took over in EL) and he'll turn 69 about mid season (January 30).

ELA?

[ELA]

Not sure how good he is, but after the show he put on tonight, random non affiliated accounts are saying he's the most athletic player they've ever seen.  So at least MSU should be entertaining in losses


https://twitter.com/slam_university/status/1713026819400626346?t=XaXF-zfT-yhZmMbnhtpMRQ&s=19


https://twitter.com/bobbydouglas21/status/1713021525157117978?t=yspWEs0G4kPJmNW9j4H6oQ&s=19

He did the famous MJ dunk, except added a double clutch.  Can't wait for him to score 5 points on a 2-11 night, but have 2 SC Top 10s

[847badgerfan]

Did anyone really think that anything would happen to Kansas with this thing?

Kansas basketball ruling closes book on 6 years of colossal waste by FBI, NCAA - The Athletic

[FearlessF]

nope

[ELA]

Wichita State better watch out

[medinabuckeye1]

Based on where the gaps are...

1-Purdue, MSU
2-Maryland, Illinois
3-Wisconsin, Indiana, OSU
4-NW, Iowa, Rutgers, Michigan
5-Nebraska, PSU
6-Minnesota

You know how we elevate MSU as basically the "Izzo bump" because we all think Izzo is a great coach so we just assume that MSU will be better than expected?

IMHO, the opposite should apply to Ohio State. Does anyone here believe that the staff at tOSU is the equal of the staffs at Wisconsin, Indiana,  Northwestern, Iowa, or Rutgers?

I'd move tOSU down to tier-4 on the assumption that their staff will prevent them from achieving at a tier-3 level.

Also, not sure if you missed it or if you just don't want to think about it but, what is your ( @ELA ) take on the future at MSU? How long will Izzo stay? Is there any kind of succession plan?

[ELA]

ELA?

It certainly doesn't seem imminent, but these things can change quickly.

He'd never admit it, but I think winning a second national title is extremely important to him.

Succession plan, not sure.  The Izzo coaching tree hasn't been all that good.  The guys who had early success (Stan Heath, Tom Crean) sort of flamed out.  Part of the problem is that a lot of his assistants, when they don't work out, come back to East Lansing.  Great for program consistency, not ideal for finding new assistants.

• Mike Garland got the Cleveland State job in 2003, got first after 3 years, came back and coached under Izzo until he retired in 2022
• Brian Gregory got the Dayton job in 2003, then got poached by Georgia Tech, got fired in 2016, and came back and coached under Izzo, until USF hired him
• Mark Montgomery got the NIU job in 2011, got fired in 2021, came back and is an Izzo assistant again
• Doug Wojcik got the Tulsa job in 2005, got fired in 2014, then after a year at Gonzaga and a year at ECU, came back to MSU in 2018, and has been there since

[847badgerfan]

He's 69. That's like the new 55.