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Topic: 2021 Awards Season

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MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #182 on: December 17, 2021, 11:54:27 AM »
Was the QB more important in 1985?  1970?  Certainly it'd be a hard case to make when most teams were playing single-wing football and the halfbacks had as many pass attempts as the QB did.
You can make a decent argument that modern football is just old timey football with more passes. In any event, as passing has become more popular, and the rules have changed to favor passing, quarterbacks have grown in importance.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #183 on: December 17, 2021, 12:02:40 PM »

Quote
I'll never understand this inability or unwillingness to separate college and pro, when valuing players.  They are 2 completely different animals.



I don't think they are that different. NFL people have their whole paycheck dependent on evaluating football players for how good they are. Which isn't to say you automatically give an award to whomever you think is the best NFL prospect. For example, this spring I imagine we will get debates over whether Aidan Hutchinson or Kayvon Thibodeaux should be the top defensive player (or overall player) drafted. The arguments for Thibodeaux will revolve around him being more athletic and having more upside. The arguments for Hutchinson will be that he was better on the field. Seems like relevant information when giving an award to the best player.


There will always be guys who have great seasons who aren't NFL caliber players. But when determining who the best players are, I'd like to know what the people think whose paycheck revolves around picking the best players.


OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #184 on: December 17, 2021, 02:16:16 PM »
I don't think they are that different. NFL people have their whole paycheck dependent on evaluating football players for how good they are. Which isn't to say you automatically give an award to whomever you think is the best NFL prospect. For example, this spring I imagine we will get debates over whether Aidan Hutchinson or Kayvon Thibodeaux should be the top defensive player (or overall player) drafted. The arguments for Thibodeaux will revolve around him being more athletic and having more upside. The arguments for Hutchinson will be that he was better on the field. Seems like relevant information when giving an award to the best player.
But on what planet does "being more athletic and having more upside" have ANYTHING to do with awarding a player's season?????   
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #185 on: December 17, 2021, 02:22:16 PM »
But on what planet does "being more athletic and having more upside" have ANYTHING to do with awarding a player's season????? 
Well, nothing. But being the best player on the field is definitely something.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #186 on: December 17, 2021, 03:31:12 PM »
Not without production.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #187 on: December 17, 2021, 03:46:39 PM »

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #188 on: December 17, 2021, 03:55:28 PM »
Was the QB more important in 1985?  1970?  Certainly it'd be a hard case to make when most teams were playing single-wing football and the halfbacks had as many pass attempts as the QB did.
QB's were always the most important piece of the puzzle. With the advent of modern pass offenses, rule changes, and everything geared towards passing the football their considerable importance has only increased and they have just become even more important and are far and away the most important single piece of the puzzle.

Mdot21

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #189 on: December 17, 2021, 03:57:05 PM »
Production?
he's implying Aidan Hutchinson wasn't productive. 

I wish Florida would've played Michigan OOC this year so this guy could've watched Aidan whip his teams ass live on tv.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #190 on: December 17, 2021, 04:10:50 PM »
Fix my list
.
My vote for the "most outstanding player" having the "most outstanding season" in the past 10 seasons, taking into account QB, RB, and WRs aren't given any more weight than any other position:
2021 - Will Anderson, LB, Alabama
2020 - Kyle Pitts, TE, Florida
2019 - Joe Burrow, QB, LSU
2018 - Josh Allen, LB, Kentucky
2017 - Quenton Nelson, G, Notre Dame
2016 - Lamar Jackson, QB, Louisville
2015 - Christian McCaffrey, RB, Stanford
2014 - Scooby Wright, LB, Arizona
2013 - Aaron Donald, DT, Pitt
2012 - Barrett Jones, C, Alabama
.
What's wrong with these?  Would the Heisman be worse?  Would it mean less?  Or would it actually have true fans' respect because it's not a limited selection process?
One could say it's lacking DBs...but maybe that requires a Woodson or a Deion.  
Maybe it's SEC-heavy....but what conference has the most best recruits AND draft choices EVERY single year in this 10-year period?
.
Pick it apart, improve upon it, but don't stack it with QBs and RBs...that defeats the point.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #191 on: December 17, 2021, 04:13:46 PM »
he's implying Aidan Hutchinson wasn't productive.

I wish Florida would've played Michigan OOC this year so this guy could've watched Aidan whip his teams ass live on tv.
I didn't have any player in mind.  This is how bonkers you're being.  You're in OJ conspiracy land.
.
Hutchinson was extremely productive.  Please read that sentence again.  Hutchinson is a great player.  Your invented narrative that I think he sucks is a lie, and you know it's a lie.  Please stop lying. 

Thank you.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #192 on: December 17, 2021, 04:16:06 PM »

I wish Florida would've played Michigan OOC this year so this guy could've watched Aidan whip his teams ass live on tv.
Beating Florida isn't a big deal this year.  We also run way more than we pass, so that would yield limited sack opportunities.  
And when we look at TFL numbers of Hutchinson and say....Will Anderson, that's just not Aidan's thing.  
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #193 on: December 17, 2021, 04:16:26 PM »
he's implying Aidan Hutchinson wasn't productive.

I wish Florida would've played Michigan OOC this year so this guy could've watched Aidan whip his teams ass live on tv.
Well Michigan went from unranked to the playoffs. Seems pretty productive to me.

MaximumSam

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #194 on: December 17, 2021, 04:36:02 PM »
Beating Florida isn't a big deal this year.  We also run way more than we pass, so that would yield limited sack opportunities. 
And when we look at TFL numbers of Hutchinson and say....Will Anderson, that's just not Aidan's thing. 
Ah, tackles for loss. A great statistic. Tackles 20 yards down the field go in the same group as tackles at the line of scrimmage. But a foot behind the line of scrimmage gets it's own special statistic. And if it's a quarterback behind the line of scrimmage, it gets an even more special statistic. Who wouldn't want these stats to be the backbone of any analysis of how good a player is?

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2021 Awards Season
« Reply #195 on: December 17, 2021, 05:49:25 PM »
Which player DID more?

Player A:  91 tackles, of which 29 were behind the LOS and 15.5 sacks
OR
Player B:  58 tackles, of which 15.5 were behind the LOS and 14 sacks
.


33 tackles, 13.5 TFL, and a 1.5 sack difference.  Tell me more about pressures?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

 

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