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Topic: Misfits Thread

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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8092 on: September 02, 2020, 01:42:33 PM »
Well, my point is to reduce the current imbalance in the electoral college, which I think gives the less populous states too much of a say. So that was kind of my point--without doing away with it entirely.

Also, the states still have their two senators, which gives a massive advantage to the less populous states in Congress. So I'm not that worried about protecting them.

Texas, as the third most populous state, doesn't have much to worry about, but politically it is more aligned with the more rural states (as are you, 320), so it's not surprising that Texas doesn't like the idea of the popular vote. But a decade or two from now, if it has turned blue (as trends indicate is a possibility), maybe popular opinion in Texas will change.

It's still all academic. None of this is very likely to happen in our lifetimes.
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8093 on: September 02, 2020, 01:44:29 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on September 02, 2020, 01:41:37 PM
My main reasoning is under a theory where Trump voters are  secretly afraid to say they support Trump, we'd see some evidence for it. What would that evidence look like? At the very least, a lot of variance in polls on Trump's support. That hasn't really been the case.
I dont think Trump votes are afraid to say they are for Trump

I think its the simple fact they are not being asked as much as dem voters are

again the Polls are wrong but I think thats out of design of the poll not because the Trump voter is afraid 
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8094 on: September 02, 2020, 01:45:26 PM »
Quote from: Entropy on September 02, 2020, 01:29:59 PM
american's voted that the best Mexican restaurant was taco bell...  Not sure I'm in favor of a true democracy.  Mob/Majority rules are not always the best answer, especially for minority opinion rights. 
I can't even think of any other Mexican restaurants out there.  Are you saying some places have options?
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8095 on: September 02, 2020, 01:45:56 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 12:34:49 PM
Frankly, it warms my heart that you two aren't Trump supporters. Badge, I agree that Trump is no conservative. The reason I had that misimpression of you is yesterday you said that Trump saved Kenosha (as opposed to the National Guard the governor ordered after the vigilante shooting). While you may not be a Trump supporter, that sentiment shocks me. In my view (back to the Oatmeal), Trump caused Kenosha (not the police shooting, but the violence that followed it), first by his complete lack of empathy, and second by his tacit--and now explicit--support for vigilante "justice." And comparing a single, outspoken member of Congress (from a very safe seat, mind you) to the President as far as impact on the nation's mood seems like a big stretch. That's how my backfire effect brain processes your comments on this subject.

I am--unabashedly--liberal. That impacts my worldview, undoubtedly. I'm also a realist who understands something about how our constitutional republic is supposed to work, which means I tend to back centrists...left-leaning centrists. To be fair, more than centrists, I back people who I think are effective at governing within our constitutional system (with a left-leaning perspective). One of the saving graces of the Trump presidency (in my opinion) is how incompetent he and his adherents are. Thank goodness. But my big fear is how effectively he's turned us even more on each other, and how no matter how crazy the things he and his lieutenants say, they become part of his followers beliefs shortly thereafter--even when they are clearly projections.

A recent example, it is a matter of public record that Kellyanne Conway said, on Fox News, "The more chaos and anarchy and vandalism and violence reigns, the better it is for the very clear choice on who's best on public safety and law and order." No debate, no opinion, one of the President's closest advisors said this on TV. Clearly she feels that more chaos, etc., benefits Trump's reelection campaign. Within days (less, I think), the Trump echo machine was saying the opposite: that the Democrats want more chaos because they think it benefits them. That is quite a turn--and a classic projection.

The point isn't whom the chaos benefits, the reason either side wants to say the other side benefits from the chaos is because all the politicos know that blaming the other side for supporting violence is a way to cut into the other side's support. So the Trump supporters (I don't want to call them Republicans, though he has rallied Republican support better than other actual Republicans) say Biden wants this because they think that the undecided voter in Wisconsin that Badge knows will hear that and think: violence bad + Biden likes violence = Biden bad. So they say it, and Trump supporters believe it, despite it being a trusted Trump advisor who said chaos benefits Trump, not the other way around.

Recapping: Trump top lieutenant says chaos is good for Trump. Almost instantly, Trump supporters say that it is Biden that wants chaos. Trump supporters believe that: Biden wants violence. This kind of thing is bizarre, and consistent.

Back to the polls for a moment. One of the most incredible things in the Trump presidency is the lack of movement in polling regarding Trump's approval rating. His range is about 38-43% approval NO MATTER WHAT. For all the good and bad, he stays in that range (within margins of error). It's made me believe what Trump said--again a matter of public record, not opinion:

"I could stand in the middle of Fifth Avenue and shoot somebody, and I wouldn't lose any voters, OK? It's, like, incredible."

It is incredible. And very, very sad.
Your liberal view is definitely closing your mind to reality. And this is coming from a person who never would vote for trump. 

After watching Maxine Waters Nancy Pelosi the CNN liberal Pundits and numerous other high profile Democrats encourage violence all this time, contribute bail money to violent people who got arrested, it shocked me that someone with your intelligence would actually try to blame the violence on POTUS. 
I also think you’re confusing cause-and-effect. Somebody like trump could only be elected because main stream Americans were tired of the over the top political correctness, cancel culture, race baiting, and generally rapid movement towards liberal things.  The list of those things by the way could go on and on and on but I only have a few minutes for this post.

what the word liberal means to me now is racism, divisiveness, Tribal politics, open borders, pro criminal, anti-police, and generally dishonesty through media narratives.

I may hate Trump, which I do, but I hate those things just as much or more and see them represented by nearly all of the high profile Democrats.  And it’s based on what they say, what the videos show me, and what I see happening around me and not on what someone tells me.
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8096 on: September 02, 2020, 01:47:25 PM »
Quote from: SFBadger96 on September 02, 2020, 01:42:33 PM
Well, my point is to reduce the current imbalance in the electoral college, which I think gives the less populous states too much of a say. So that was kind of my point--without doing away with it entirely.

Also, the states still have their two senators, which gives a massive advantage to the less populous states in Congress. So I'm not that worried about protecting them.

Texas, as the third most populous state, doesn't have much to worry about, but politically it is more aligned with the more rural states (as are you, 320), so it's not surprising that Texas doesn't like the idea of the popular vote. But a decade or two from now, if it has turned blue (as trends indicate is a possibility), maybe popular opinion in Texas will change.

It's still all academic. None of this is very likely to happen in our lifetimes.
not trying to be confrontational but do you know how a state gets a certain number of electoral votes

in short there is a total of 435 available and they are assigned to each state based on its population as determined by the last census
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8097 on: September 02, 2020, 01:49:30 PM »
There are 538 electors in the US.
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8098 on: September 02, 2020, 01:51:21 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:49:30 PM
There are 538 electors in the US.
ok sorry got the number wrong but the point is they are distributed to each state by population

PS after 2 is given to each of the states for the senate
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8099 on: September 02, 2020, 01:53:45 PM »
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.

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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8100 on: September 02, 2020, 01:54:23 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.


right I corrected my post
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longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8101 on: September 02, 2020, 01:56:19 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:53:45 PM
In part, yes, but the addition of 2 to each state is not.

So, Wyoming goes from 1 to 3 because of Senators.  California gets a MUCH smaller bump percentagewise.


and the purpose for this is to give each state an equal say along with the other votes based on population

so weve come full circle
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Brutus Buckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8102 on: September 02, 2020, 01:59:21 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on September 02, 2020, 01:45:26 PM
I can't even think of any other Mexican restaurants out there.  Are you saying some places have options?

Taco Time, Del Taco, Taco John's... 



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BYNoQZ5djUA
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1919, 20, 21, 28, 29, 31, 34, 35, 36, 37, 42, 44
WWH: 1952, 54, 55, 57, 58, 60, 61, 62, 63, 65, 67, 68, 70, 72, 74, 75
1979, 81, 82, 84, 87, 94, 98
2001, 02, 04, 05, 06, 07, 08, 09, 10, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8103 on: September 02, 2020, 01:59:58 PM »
Does burger king still sell tacos?
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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8104 on: September 02, 2020, 02:05:07 PM »
Right--the way the electoral college assigns votes is exactly as you guys have worked out, and because of those plus 2 it gives a huge advantage to the smaller states' voters relative to the bigger ones.

But the distribution of the 435 members of the house also isn't exact. I believe (I'm not going to look it up, but there is a correct answer), the House's districts are currently divided into 750,000 member districts, except that they are all within a single state. As a result, not all districts are the same size, and I think--though I'm not sure--that this, again results in a moderate bump for the less populous states. In short, whereas in Texas, Flordida, New York, and California, the districts are closer to a uniform 750K, my recollection is that the more rural states have districts that are often a little smaller than that, which, again gives their individual voter a little more say in the presidential election. Not a lot, a little. 

And--again--it's all academic. While, as Cincy notes, some states may vote to assign their electors to the winner of the popular vote, only the more populous states are likely to do that, essentially protecting the current system. And because there are more less populous than more populous states, the electoral college isn't going anywhere.
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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #8105 on: September 02, 2020, 02:07:55 PM »
Because I larded up my earlier post with too much opinion and such, here it is again--the main point of that post (you can guess which one):

https://theoatmeal.com/comics/believe

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