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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7798 on: August 31, 2020, 10:28:22 AM »
At least wind generates electricity, and I keep hearing it's now cheaper than anything else, so it shouldn't need incentives.

I think most of us think we need some kind of government assistance for needy families.  The form of that could be discussed ad nauseum.

I suggested each family living in poverty get a government check for the amount needed to get them above the poverty level.  And every other program stops.  No HUD, no Medicare, no welfare, a check, here ya go.  You're now out of poverty.  Do with it as you will.  As you begin to work, the check drops off with 50% of your after tax earnings.

That of course would have "issues" in many cases.

No more poverty, technically defined.  And it would be cheaper.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7799 on: August 31, 2020, 10:29:26 AM »
I keep looking for data on testing of a thousand or so "rep pop" groups to see how pervasive this is.

I'm surprised it has not been done, or reported anyway.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7800 on: August 31, 2020, 10:37:53 AM »
Yup, that is why I was speaking in theory.  I do think the ethanol for gasoline is pretty much 99.999% bad.

And we can't end that one.
Ahh, but that policy is entirely achieving it's intended consequences...

...being something that Presidential candidates can use to try to win Iowa's primary by promising to protect/keep/expand.

utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7801 on: August 31, 2020, 10:39:44 AM »
I blame Iowa and ALL of its inhabitants.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7802 on: August 31, 2020, 10:40:36 AM »
I blame Iowa and ALL of its inhabitants.
They should all move to Austin, or Phoenix.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7803 on: August 31, 2020, 10:47:02 AM »
I keep looking for data on testing of a thousand or so "rep pop" groups to see how pervasive this is.

I'm surprised it has not been done, or reported anyway.
its relative geographically 

you would need to do these tests all over the country and also its a point in time so no guarantee it would represent the situation a month from now
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

NorthernOhioBuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7804 on: August 31, 2020, 10:49:48 AM »
But what if "government help" is a major reason that the homeless person is homeless?  (And, in real life, that is often the case.)  Is more of it going to be the fix?
We've had major government help since 1966 (when the War on Poverty/Great Society programs began coming on line) and the poverty rate is now what it was then--it bumps along between 11% and 14%.
It's not only blatantly discriminatory policies like FHA redlining that have hurt poor people in general and black people particularly, it's also "good" legislation like minimum-wage laws, which make it harder for less-educated, less-skilled, less-experienced workers find work.  That impacts black people disproportionately.  And there's the Wagner Act--organized labor's "Magna Carta"--of the New Deal.  It dictated that businesses contracting with the federal government must pay the "prevailing wage."  That meant the union wage.  And most trade unions excluded blacks.  Awhile back I read an analysis (the details of which I now unfortunately forget) showing that that policy is still adversely affecting black Americans.
In general, many federal welfare programs have discouraged work and encouraged single-parent families, which are exactly the wrong incentives for poor people in general and especially for black Americans, where the lack of a father, married to the mother, in the home helping to raise the children, is at the heart of many social ills.
I'd be willing to try a negative income tax plan like Milton Friedman (Mr. Free Market) advocated ca. 1970.  Basically, the government sets a certain amount of income for a given family size, and if the family income is less than that, the government pays 80% (or some other percentage) of the difference.  There's help, but there's still an incentive for the breadwinner(s) of that family to keep striving for more income.  And it would eliminate vast swaths of the welfare bureaucracy, which may be a major reason that it didn't make it through Congress back during the Nixon administration.  Those welfare workers are unionized, and they vote, and their unions donate to political campaigns.
I'd like to see some social stigmas return.
For fathers who don't bother to marry the mothers of their children, and then abandon them to go spread their pollen elsewhere.  (Oops!  That would describe some large proportion of professional athletes, our idols.)
For unwed mothers in general (on principle) and especially for young, poor unwed mothers.  Cheap contraceptives are widely available, but we subsidize bad choices, encouraging more of them.
For parents who can't manage to get up in the morning and feed their children, leaving it up to the schools to do the job instead.
You nailed it with this post. While gov't programs may do some good on the surface, they create a lifestyle of dependency that is hard to escape. And when the gov't then rewards bad behavior (fatherless homes, teenage girls having children, etc.) it makes it even worse. 

The lesson to be learned here is that the gov't should NOT be in the business of a charity. The gov't exists for 1 reason only, to protect the rights of it's citizens. PERIOD. Whenever the gov't gets involved trying to help one group by taking from another, it will ALWAYS end badly. Sure, they intended to do good, but in the end, the results were terrible and usually either make the situation worse, or at best, maintains the status quo. 

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7805 on: August 31, 2020, 11:47:48 AM »
They should all move to Austin, or Phoenix.
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7806 on: August 31, 2020, 11:49:52 AM »
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
No No No move to the dessert

thats where the beautiful people are
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7807 on: August 31, 2020, 11:53:08 AM »
speaking of living in the dessert:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKNoJ2BzSRU
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7808 on: August 31, 2020, 12:00:02 PM »
Austin

don't move to the dessert, no good water
Now I'm hungry for cheesecake.

SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7809 on: August 31, 2020, 12:02:21 PM »
Y'all, I think I'm going to concentrate my clicks elsewhere, going forward (meaning elsewhere on this site, not completely somewhere else).

But before I go, a couple of things.

1) Keep blaming the poor for being poor.

2) Keep telling yourselves that all government (or merely most) is bad government. Think about the United States' best moments and achievements, and consider how many of them happened in lieu of or in spite of government intervention. I'll click back here to see what you list, at least a little bit.

3) Keep telling yourself that the guy who's raison d'etre is making fun of people who disagree with him isn't fanning the flames of hatred and division in this country.

4) This is probably my only substantive point: you like to point to government safety net problems as the cause of the nations social ills, but those programs were implemented because of those ills. While you point to the Great Society as the reason for poverty and the shrinking middle class, the loss of union power in the private sector correlates even better with the decline of the middle class. Unions (for all their faults, and like any person-run organization, they have plenty of them) helped distribute wealth to the working class, rather than to the ownership class. It worked for much of the post-war period, but in the 1970s union power started to decline. Unions have always been in the cross hairs of the ownership class because they do just that, they distribute wealth down to the workers, which, in turn, protects the middle class. One unfortunate thing that Badge--or one of you, anyway--hinted at above was the clash between the civil rights movement and the private labor unions. Labor unions exist to force management to the bargaining table over wages/benefits and to protect jobs. However, when the civil rights movement gained momentum, that created a conflict between protecting jobs and giving black people (primarily) a seat at the union bargaining table. The ownership class, which has predominantly been Republican, has been more than happy to exploit that schism to keep working class laborers struggling against the civil rights movement, and vice versa. However, we're now at a point in our country's history that private labor unions have lost much of their power, but they are no longer the bastion of whiteness that they were in the 1950s. If private labor were to regain strength today, the clash over job protection and race has largely vanished, so a rising labor movement would raise all working class labor, not just white (or black, latino, etc.) labor.

In the short term, stronger private labor unions might put a dent in my 401K, but in the long term, they would make for a stronger middle class, less poverty, a rising standard of living, and a more stable, better country.

Alright--time for me to (mostly) read other threads. 


MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7810 on: August 31, 2020, 12:06:13 PM »
You nailed it with this post. While gov't programs may do some good on the surface, they create a lifestyle of dependency that is hard to escape. And when the gov't then rewards bad behavior (fatherless homes, teenage girls having children, etc.) it makes it even worse.

The lesson to be learned here is that the gov't should NOT be in the business of a charity. The gov't exists for 1 reason only, to protect the rights of it's citizens. PERIOD. Whenever the gov't gets involved trying to help one group by taking from another, it will ALWAYS end badly. Sure, they intended to do good, but in the end, the results were terrible and usually either make the situation worse, or at best, maintains the status quo.
I dunno. A lot of these seem to be just looking at the downside of any particular problem without much context. Interstates make people dependent on cars, but it's rarely described as a nanny state program.

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7811 on: August 31, 2020, 12:17:58 PM »
we have used legislation to cure social ills since this country's inception and I dont expect it to stop


unfortunately now days its not only legislation but the federal court system as well
They won't let me give blood anymore. The burnt orange color scares the hell out of the doctors.

 

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