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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7700 on: August 30, 2020, 12:32:34 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 10:53:05 AM
Let's be real by friend, the obstructionism isn't why you dislike them. Many times, we've praised obstructionism on this very thread. We're 8-10 years into high end obstructionism, minus the two years when it wasn't possible. It's just our era.

They push for certain things you strongly don't believe. That reason enough to not like your political opposition.
Your elitist, arrogant attitude is showing again buddy. Please don’t be like orange her man and tell people what they think. You don’t know what I think so please stop pretending you do.
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7701 on: August 30, 2020, 12:33:37 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.

How did the bolded come to pass? 

The revisionist history around that is fascinating. What is the case he was railroaded? I think she was an unlikeable candidate, but she was a known name with centrist policies and a long record. The the voters of the party picked her rather than a career socialist is now treated as if it could only happen with the machine at her back.  
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7702 on: August 30, 2020, 12:38:40 PM »
Quote from: CWSooner on August 30, 2020, 12:19:47 PM
The Republicans have changed their message.  Drastically.  Draw a Venn diagram of Reagan's message of optimism and Trump's message of chaos and destruction and you won't see much overlap.
Reagan's base did not include neo-Nazis, white-supremacists, skinheads, shadowy militia groups, and conspiracy theorists.  Reagan reached across the aisle and got tremendous support from Democrat voters and from "boll-weevil" Democrats in Congress.
This is where you lose me.  Totally.  All you had to do was watch the conventions.  
I have no love for the Elephants but the Donkeys are most definitely the party of chaos and doom and gloom.  It isn’t even close. 
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utee94

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7703 on: August 30, 2020, 12:40:18 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:33:37 PM
How did the bolded come to pass?

The revisionist history around that is fascinating. What is the case he was railroaded? I think she was an unlikeable candidate, but she was a known name with centrist policies and a long record. The the voters of the party picked her rather than a career socialist is now treated as if it could only happen with the machine at her back. 
Ask the Bernie fanbois, they have it well-documented. :)
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7704 on: August 30, 2020, 12:40:30 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 12:26:00 PM
I'll agree that the Republican party machine lost its wheels and then Trump highjacked it.

But the Democratic machine is in full force.  It was powerful enough to railroad Bernie (and everyone else) to force Hillary into the prime position, and it ram-rodded Biden this go-round.  The Democratic voters are fractured, but the machine is in full force and still quite obviously driving.  Their real problem is that their platform has become not much more than "whatever the Republicans aren't" which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's a defensive position that doesn't generate much confidence or heartfelt support.

This!
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7705 on: August 30, 2020, 12:40:35 PM »
Oddly enough, I watched neither convention.  
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7706 on: August 30, 2020, 12:40:54 PM »
the Clinton machine was strong
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7707 on: August 30, 2020, 12:41:19 PM »
Quote from: Cincydawg on August 30, 2020, 12:40:35 PM
Oddly enough, I watched neither convention. 
I'm with you.  not one second
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7708 on: August 30, 2020, 12:44:05 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:32:34 PM
Your elitist, arrogant attitude is showing again buddy. Please don’t be like orange her man and tell people what they think. You don’t know what I think so please stop pretending you do.
That's elitist? HB, that's not elitism. It's just not. Rude? Perhaps. 

I said what I said because I made an assumption. Maybe it was wrong. From 2012-16, the senate obstructed and obstructed and obstructed. And I made the assumption you didn't hate them. And I was wrong to assume that. If you did hate them, I'm sorry for what I wrote. 

And if you didn't hate them, then you don't hate the obstructionist approach. On this front, there is little middle ground. 
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7709 on: August 30, 2020, 12:45:26 PM »
One thing I wonder about is whether "not being Trump" is enough to attract enough swayable voters in the midwest.  I figure to win, Trump has to carry FL and OH and the rest, so it comes down, again, to the midwestern states, WI/MI/PA/MN.  And I think it will be close, 50-50 basically.

I think, personally, Biden needs to focus on "Three Things" he would do as President.  Hillary offered a to do list that was too long, and unfocussed.  I think the three things concept is useful and communicative.

And they should be affirmative things, not just "I'm not Trump".

It is ironic, to me, that my Number One concern for the country is the deficit/debt, and neither party wants to go there.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7710 on: August 30, 2020, 12:46:17 PM »
Quote from: bayareabadger on August 30, 2020, 12:44:05 PM
That's elitist? HB, that's not elitism. It's just not. Rude? Perhaps.

I said what I said because I made an assumption. Maybe it was wrong. From 2012-16, the senate obstructed and obstructed and obstructed. And I made the assumption you didn't hate them. And I was wrong to assume that. If you did hate them, I'm sorry for what I wrote.

And if you didn't hate them, then you don't hate the obstructionist approach. On this front, there is little middle ground.
Fair.  I do hate obstructionism.  Hated it then. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7711 on: August 30, 2020, 12:47:57 PM »
https://songmeanings.com/m/songs/view/2812/


Us and Them.  Pink Floyd. 

I guess these debates are timeless- been around for a long time.  
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7712 on: August 30, 2020, 12:54:21 PM »
Quote from: utee94 on August 30, 2020, 12:40:18 PM
Ask the Bernie fanbois, they have it well-documented. :)
They sounded like every fanbase that says "If there wasn't that pass interference in the first quarter, momentum would've been different and we woulda won."

The best logic seems to be that Sanders was entitled to avoid having to face someone heads-up for as long as possible until narrative momentum made him the presumptive option. And in the end, he's not entitled to it.

In the end, he went heads-up twice and got smashed in the votes. Them's the breaks (I don't have a great deal of admiration for Hil or Joe, but they won in the way that makes logical sense)
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bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #7713 on: August 30, 2020, 12:55:27 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on August 30, 2020, 12:46:17 PM
Fair.  I do hate obstructionism.  Hated it then.
Fair enough. I withdraw the previous comment. 

And I too would like to see less all-or-nothingism in our process. 
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