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Topic: Misfits Thread

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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6706 on: August 25, 2020, 03:49:19 PM »
If you don't realize that the history of black Americans interacting with police is fundamentally different than that of white Americans, then you need to look into it more.

yes, I took a criminal justice class in college.  It's eye opening.  My cousin was a police officer in Dallas and then San Jose, before burning out and teaching criminal justice at Chadron St. and then UNL.  The biggest reason he burnt out on the job was "bad" cops.

first - there aren't enough blacks in my county for law enforcement to pick on, so law enforcement hassles white people.

second - if I'm a black person and I think law enforcement might treat me poorly because of my race, that's the best reason to say, "yes sir" and comply with every request.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6707 on: August 25, 2020, 03:55:45 PM »
He was being arrested for sexual assault and 2 other warrants.
Understood. I took your question to be much more general, about when "you're" by which I believed you meant any citizen rather than Blake, "engaged in any situation with a law enforcement officer" by which I didn't think you were referring to actively being arrested as they execute a warrant. 

Which I tried to cover in my paragraph where I flat out said Blake was obviously not in a "voluntary interaction" with police and was expected to comply. 

We both agree he was obligated to comply.

I thought your question was a hypothetical covering every situation, and thus I was saying that other situations can be more complicated.

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6708 on: August 25, 2020, 03:58:03 PM »
Dammit. It's already starting to heat up around here again. Listening to the Scanner 5-0 gives you a real feel about what these cops are dealing with here.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6709 on: August 25, 2020, 04:14:37 PM »
cops need to start arresting vandals to deter others

a water cannon might be a decent deterrent 
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6710 on: August 25, 2020, 04:24:18 PM »
I always felt I missed out on some history by not being alive to see 1968...

...but at least I get to watch the sequel. 

longhorn320

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6711 on: August 25, 2020, 04:32:14 PM »
I always felt I missed out on some history by not being alive to see 1968...

...but at least I get to watch the sequel.
Todays riots make 1968 look like church picnic 
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SFBadger96

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6712 on: August 25, 2020, 04:36:50 PM »
yes, I took a criminal justice class in college.  It's eye opening.  My cousin was a police officer in Dallas and then San Jose, before burning out and teaching criminal justice at Chadron St. and then UNL.  The biggest reason he burnt out on the job was "bad" cops.

first - there aren't enough blacks in my county for law enforcement to pick on, so law enforcement hassles white people.

second - if I'm a black person and I think law enforcement might treat me poorly because of my race, that's the best reason to say, "yes sir" and comply with every request.
Sure, but it's also the reason that a black person's fight or flight instinct is very likely tuned much differently from yours or mine.

My daughter's god father is a cop, and I spent just enough time in the District Attorney's office to get to see how much great work police do--and to see that there are some--probably not many as a percentage of the population--dirty cops, too.

One of the things that sucks about systemic racism is the way it infects organizations in subtle and difficult to diagnose ways. Police departments are a good example of that. Many of the negative outcomes specifically borne by the black community don't stem from a cop who one would ever diagnose as racist in the sense of attending Klan rallies, or using racial epithets in daily conversation. They come from the history of societal outcomes cast by race that are highlighted by the arm of the government tasked with enforcing laws at the ground level.

That's why this country needs to own up to what has led us here so we can begin to try to address it. Banning choke holds doesn't fix it, and throwing up our hands and not enforcing the law can't be the right answer, either.

Like any good self-help program, the first step is admitting we have a problem. Part of that admission is recognizing why so many people are so angry, instead of dismissing or villainizing them.

Much more will be learned about what happened to Jacob Blake, but it's awfully hard to watch either of those videos without wondering why on earth the police felt that situation called for lethal violence. If he said he was grabbing a gun from his car, sure, that would explain a lot, but excuse the skepticism when culpable police have often used that to explain their behavior when there was no video (or other) evidence to refute it. And if so, why wouldn't they have acted sooner to prevent him from getting to his car?

Many--if not most--police departments have given up on the high speed chase in most circumstances because the risk it poses is too great relative to the reward. This feels to me like that kind of situation--again, short of Blake saying he was going for a gun--the use of lethal force in that situation doesn't feel like its worth the reward.

And was this specific event driven by race? Who knows, but it's easy for me to believe the answer is no. But in the bigger picture, the situation--that black people are on the receiving end of more of these situations than white people, is absolutely a function of race in America. That's what needs to be owned up to so that we can begin to make serious efforts to address it.

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6713 on: August 25, 2020, 04:47:56 PM »
Much more will be learned about what happened to Jacob Blake, but it's awfully hard to watch either of those videos without wondering why on earth the police felt that situation called for lethal violence. If he said he was grabbing a gun from his car, sure, that would explain a lot, but excuse the skepticism when culpable police have often used that to explain their behavior when there was no video (or other) evidence to refute it. And if so, why wouldn't they have acted sooner to prevent him from getting to his car?

Mr. Blake doesn't appear to me to be that large or strong that two cops couldn't put cuffs on him when he was on the ground.  I understand he may have been on drugs that enhanced his physical ability to fight the cops or resist a taser.  They might have tackled him as he was walking away from him towards to driver's side of the car.
regardless, 7 shots to me seems excessive, but I don't have that experience.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6714 on: August 25, 2020, 04:50:23 PM »
Many--if not most--police departments have given up on the high speed chase in most circumstances because the risk it poses is too great relative to the reward. This feels to me like that kind of situation--again, short of Blake saying he was going for a gun--the use of lethal force in that situation doesn't feel like its worth the reward.

the high speed chase has been one of my issues for decades.  It still happens here regularly.

especially when young people are involved - 15-20 years old
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6715 on: August 25, 2020, 04:55:59 PM »
Well obviously. But that’s the problem. In a dynamic situation with only split seconds for everything to unfold what is excessive force? Kneeling on someone’s neck for 8.46 minutes is not in question here.

when you have tased someone multiple times and they are clearly not affected because they are under the influence of something, and there’s a warrant out for their arrest for third degree sexual assault as well as other Felonise, and they have a history of violence, and they go to their car open the door and lean into the front, not as if to try to get in but to reach for something, what is excessive force at that juncture?
police are shot and killed every single day in this country. They try to subdue people verbally first and then physically second. If that doesn’t work what do they have left?
Why is the responsibility to obey the directives always ignored? When you ignore their directives you basically illuminate the shirt is that goes with compliance and open the door to the unsureness that force brings into play.
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019.
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CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6716 on: August 25, 2020, 05:02:51 PM »
Todays riots make 1968 look like church picnic
320:
You and I were both sentient in 1968, but I doubt that either of us attended any riots.
I don't think the '68 riots were less violent than today's.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6717 on: August 25, 2020, 05:03:18 PM »
Dammit. It's already starting to heat up around here again. Listening to the Scanner 5-0 gives you a real feel about what these cops are dealing with here.
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GopherRock

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6718 on: August 25, 2020, 05:05:09 PM »
According to statistics reported to the FBI, 89 law enforcement officers were killed in line-of-duty incidents in 2019.
Of those 89, 41 died in accidents. 

https://www.fbi.gov/news/pressrel/press-releases/fbi-releases-2019-statistics-on-law-enforcement-officers-killed-in-the-line-of-duty

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #6719 on: August 25, 2020, 05:08:27 PM »
So, that gets us down to possibly 48 police officers shot and killed in 2019.

Also in 2019, police officers shot and killed 1,004 civilians.
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