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Topic: Misfits Thread

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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3654 on: June 19, 2020, 03:24:52 PM »
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3655 on: June 19, 2020, 03:30:06 PM »

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
Out of curiosity, what's the cutoff for that standard. Like if I'm cuffed and they slam my head on the doorframe, that's probably  over the line?



Kris60

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3656 on: June 19, 2020, 03:37:07 PM »
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.
Yeah, QI is a tough one. There is obviously some flaws in it that should be addressed but doing away with it entirely and forcing officers to carry their own liability insurance makes an already tough job even tougher and less attractive to potential applicants.

If that happens you may have to hire less qualified and competent people which could lead to more bad outcomes with the public instead of less.

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3657 on: June 19, 2020, 03:45:49 PM »
I too have mixed feelings.  I have followed the case law a little since this became a hot topic. 

It seems that it has been easily used as a defense and the courts have made it especially difficult to overcome without an exact match of prior case law- which of course is a circle( jerk).  

On the other hand- it seems if it is eliminated entirely it would not achieve the desired effect of holding individuals financially responsible as all it would do is drive another unwieldy system like our health system. 

Maybe some changes......?
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3658 on: June 19, 2020, 04:08:55 PM »
Im against public unions cause the people negotiating for the government have no skin in the game and therefore little incentive to hold wages and benefits to an acceptable level plus this gets worse if the union contributes to their campaign

Im for qualified immunity as the best way to avoid frivolous law suits I might be for some changes in the law but not for completely doing away with it

the officer put my handcuffs on too tight Id like $1,000 for my discomfort
You can file that frivolous lawsuit TODAY if you want. You just file it against the police department instead of the officer. The department has no immunity. 

The reason you don't see a lot of those lawsuits isn't because of qualified immunity... It's because there's such a small chance of success that no lawyer wants to waste their time on it. 

BTW I would highlight that qualified immunity was never written into the law by Congress... It was created out of whole cloth by the Supreme Court, based upon a law from 1871 but they didn't invent qualified immunity until 1967, and the current extremely restrictive adjudication of it wasn't established until 1982. 

So getting rid of qualified immunity is just sticking it to those damn activist judges!

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3659 on: June 19, 2020, 04:16:23 PM »
One issue with doing away with QI is how LEOs will respond, which is predictable.  Are we going to pay them more to compensate?  They would have to carry liability insurance in effect.  An OB/GYN may pay $150 K a year for insurance.

I think the controlling PD will have to pay for it.
Yes, I would assume in many cases you would grant them an additional stipend on top of their pay for the liability insurance. 

In 2018, the NYPD paid out over $300M in lawsuit damages... If they spread that equally amongst officers, it would give every officer $10K annually as an insurance allowance. 

I don't know who's paying $150K/annually for malpractice insurance. This article (https://howmuch.net/costs/medical-malpractice-insurance) suggests that the average for doctors is around $7,500 annually. Certain specialties carry higher sums, of course (article says for surgeons it can be $30K-50K per year). 

If you make the controlling PD pay for it directly, then you end up with the exact same problem--you think the union will let the PD fire an policeman because his premiums are too high? 

But if the PD pays a stipend and then each officer is responsible for their own insurance, the good officers might find themselves pocketing a little extra cash each month because their premiums are lower than their stipend, while the bad officers will get priced right out of a job. 

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3660 on: June 19, 2020, 04:37:48 PM »
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

Mdot21

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3661 on: June 19, 2020, 04:58:07 PM »
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
I’m not sure this is accurate. 

Police are equal opportunity brutalizers. 

I think this country needs to 3 things immediately and I’m shocked any of these were ever allowed to fly in this country: 

- End the stupid “war on drugs” 
- End civil asset forfeiture 
- End no knock warrants 

Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3662 on: June 19, 2020, 05:00:47 PM »
I don't think it matters, a majority of the population being victimized by the police aren't getting a lawyer because they don't have a checking account, much less actual money.
Oh- I think they seem to come up with many talented volunteers- often stepping on each other for the chance- to represent them.  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3663 on: June 19, 2020, 05:16:06 PM »
One of the bigger problems with American criminal justice is the cops and prosecutors and judges experience no financial repercussion for their actions. It becomes easy to do the harshest to people. Sentencing someone to 70 years in prison is easier when someone else foots the bill.

betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3664 on: June 19, 2020, 05:23:30 PM »
I’m not sure this is accurate.

Police are equal opportunity brutalizers.

I'm not sure it's inaccurate, though, at least to a quite statistically significant level. 

When you're a bully, you don't go after the people who look like they could fight back. You don't go after the clean-cut guy who looks like he's got a half-dozen lawyers as friends, or might be a lawyer himself -- i.e. guys who look like me.

You might err and see a dude that is otherwise white and middle-aged and has long hair and is wearing a Metallica t-shirt and rough him up, not realizing he's actually a surgeon and his wife is a civil rights lawyer and he'll take your ass to the cleaners. 

I think bad cops--bullies--are going to "punch down" a hell of a lot more often than they punch up. 


Quote
I think this country needs to 3 things immediately and I’m shocked any of these were ever allowed to fly in this country: 

- End the stupid “war on drugs” 
- End civil asset forfeiture 
- End no knock warrants 

Agree 100%. 

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3665 on: June 19, 2020, 05:28:25 PM »
The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your speciality requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000.May 14, 2018



How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020 ...


https://equotemd.com/blog/obgyn-medical-malpractice-insurance/

As per the last year statistics, Obstetricians and gynecologists have been the ones who paid the highest rates, ranging from $85,000 to as much as $200,000.  A doctor in internal medicine is also expected to pay over $20,000 per year.


Honestbuckeye

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3666 on: June 19, 2020, 05:31:03 PM »
The AMA report shows that obstetricians can expect to pay around $150,000 in annual premiums for malpractice insurance. If your speciality requires fewer actual procedures, you can likely get by in the neighborhood of $30,000 to $50,000.May 14, 2018



How Much Does Medical Malpractice Insurance Cost in 2020 ...


Is anyone of the opinion that this makes the health care system more economic or efficient for consumers?  
Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #3667 on: June 19, 2020, 05:37:07 PM »
My friend in Boston who is an OB/GYM said he pays 6 figures, but then he says "Well actually my patients pay it."

An LEO wouldn't pay anywhere near that, but he'd likely have to pay something fairly substantial relative to his salary.


 

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