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Topic: Misfits Thread
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Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2660 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:12:56 PM »

I do think the politically correct group think does need to be heard. They are calling for defunding the police in many of these cities. In Minneapolis, they are seriously disgusting disbanding the police. In LA, the mayor committed to the protesters to. It the police budget.

If they are the majority in that city, they should have their way.

Not sure how that will go. I know if that were even a whisper where I am, or virtually any of the people I know, the first step would be to get out ASAP. Of course the first challenge I am guessing is absorbing the huge loss on my house, because I am pretty sure the property value would drop off a cliff. Second, I think most small businesses would shut down super fast. I am thinking there would be rapid flight out of those geographies. But they are very serious about it. And many of those political leaders are totally on board.

I could be all wrong, maybe they know some things I don’t.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2661 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:18:09 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 08:11:54 PM

You know, making the case against one candidate does not necessarily make the case for the opponent. And that works both ways with Biden and Trump, just as it did with Hillary and Trump. Sometimes you can't make a case for either except that he/she might not be as bad as the other candidate. I think that's how a lot of people felt in 2016, and Hillary repelled more people in the critical swing states than Trump did.
If a president--any president--is going to stand up for law and order and mean it, it means he can't urge cops to go rough on people they arrest, tell his supporters at rallies to rough up any protesters who show up, etc. If it's just law and order when it's politically convenient, because it's their guys who are out of order, then it doesn't mean all that much.
This whole protest movement has made me realize that I've had somewhat of a double standard in my head. When it's some armed 2nd-Amendment purists standing up for their right to carry their rifles into private businesses, even at the expense of scaring customers away, I've given them the benefit of the doubt. When its leftists shutting down parts of Seattle to protest a meeting of the WTO, I've been all for hitting them with all the force that the law allows, and maybe some more than that. I realize that I've got to get it straight in my head what the standards should be, because they have to apply to both sides, not just "law" for the guys on my side and "order or we'll smash the hell out of you" for the guys on the other side. I do think that in general the protests on the other side push more readily into violence, but some, maybe a lot, of the violence occurring about the edges of this protest movement is coming from "conservatives" who are acting in order to discredit the protesters.

Until you produce some evidence, I will politely say that that is outrageously ridiculous.

The movement, the press, the liberal and vocal politicians are all standing for the protesters, and minimalist government the violence and looting. Schurmur today actually said he is proud of the protesters and that the violence in New York is kind of a tradition. They may be right, but one thing is clear- the conservatives do not want looting, And destruction. The Liberals seem to, and are actuallly and openly encouraging it by openly funding bail funds to get people arrested out of jail.

It is interesting tho that those who seem to favor the unrest, would turn around and accuse the side that is trying to stop it, at times with too much force, of doing it.

CWSooner · « **Reply #2662 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:19:40 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:05:36 PM

Your call. Independent reporters kill it for me. I have watched them stand in front of blazing buildings, and literally say it’s peaceful. 😂😂😂

I can understand not trusting reporters. I certainly don't automatically trust them. Even whey aren't biased, they often get the story wrong.
Would you trust Adm. Mike Mullen, former Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, appointed to that position by Pres. George W. Bush?
"I Cannot Remain Silent"

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2663 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:26:50 PM »

I will add, as many including people in this forum pointed out, it’s sad that it seems to have come to one side or the other. It shouldn’t be that way. But let’s be real, it is.

I don’t care for the politics of either side, nor the choice it leaves me. But both sides have made it VERY clear what they stand for. It’s not veiled or subtle.

As much as I don’t like POTUS, the thought of defunding police, or allowing violence and looting because “ it’s justified for a cause” and what appears to come with it, is also extremely unappealing to me.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #2664 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:42:23 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:26:50 PM

I will add, as many including people in this forum pointed out, it’s sad that it seems to have come to one side or the other. It shouldn’t be that way. But let’s be real, it is.

I don’t care for the politics of either side, nor the choice it leaves me. But both sides have made it VERY clear what they stand for. It’s not veiled or subtle.

As much as I don’t like POTUS, the thought of defunding police, or allowing violence and looting because “ it’s justified for a cause” and what appears to come with it, is also extremely unappealing to me.

Law and order President on one side and defunding the police on the other side

Has the left gone completely crazy

How does this not help Trump

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2665 on:** June 04, 2020, 08:56:24 PM »

Quote from: longhorn320 on June 04, 2020, 08:42:23 PM

Law and order President on one side and defunding the police on the other side

Has the left gone completely crazy

How does this not help Trump

For some people it does, and for some it doesn’t. I certainly think it strengthens both the conservative and liberal bases, but only time will tell how those few and decisive ones in the middle feel. I saw a poll 3 days ago that was nationwide, something around 70% favored using the military to stop the violence. Who knows.

major corporations, celebrities , media... their thought is “ riots are the voices of the unheard”. They are making huge donations to BLM, where this strong and momentum fueled effort to defund police started. Who can deny that the organization ( not the slogan or thought process) BLM who is receiving these funds, has a track record of violence.

NAACP has bail funds for the rioters, they are taking huge corporate donations.

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2666 on:** June 04, 2020, 09:06:08 PM »

I will admit, it has me troubled and confused.

For as disgusting that video was of the asshole cops murdering Lloyd, and it so bad it actually made me nauseous and brought me to tears, I have seen many things since then that had the same effect on me.

I am not on FB, but my girlfriend is. She just showed me a very clear video of a man robbing a convenience store. He shot the one of the women after tying the two of them up behind the cash register.
He then doused one with lighter fluid and lit her on fire. He was black and the victims were white.

Now besides the obvious disgust of that crime, what troubles me is that you will have a hard time finding that story on any mainstream media outlets. Would we have two weeks ago? I do t know. My guess is, Fox would show it but nobody else would. But why is just assumed that that is not a hate, race based crime?

It just doesn’t make sense to me...

https://disrn.com/news/woman-accused-3-others-of-racism-for-cleaning-blm-graffiti-off-federal-building

This is where we are. I can’t wrap my head around this.

longhorn320 · « **Reply #2667 on:** June 04, 2020, 09:16:07 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:56:24 PM

For some people it does, and for some it doesn’t. I certainly think it strengthens both the conservative and liberal bases, but only time will tell how those few and decisive ones in the middle feel. I saw a poll 3 days ago that was nationwide, something around 70% favored using the military to stop the violence. Who knows.

major corporations, celebrities , media... their thought is “ riots are the voices of the unheard”. They are making huge donations to BLM, where this strong and momentum fueled effort to defund police started. Who can deny that the organization ( not the slogan or thought process) BLM who is receiving these funds, has a track record of violence.

NAACP has bail funds for the rioters, they are taking huge corporate donations.

I think you are seriously under estimating how pissed off the right is

There is no way the voters will put a candidate in office if they favor defunding the police

this should be interesting

longhorn320 · « **Reply #2668 on:** June 04, 2020, 09:18:41 PM »

https://ktla.com/news/local-news/l-a-city-council-members-introduce-motion-to-reduce-police-funding-as-calls-to-defund-the-lapd-echoed-in-protests/

only on the left coast could this happen

CWSooner · « **Reply #2669 on:** June 04, 2020, 09:53:56 PM »

Apropos of nothing at all, I just happened to come across some shooting statistics. As of mid-December 2019, 38 cops had been murdered in the line of duty (not counting cops shot by other cops). 1004 civilians were shot and killed by cops in 2019. Most of those 1004 were probably justified, but not all of them.

As I and others have noted, the idea that police kill black victims disproportionately is false.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #2670 on:** June 04, 2020, 10:08:40 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 08:18:09 PM

Until you produce some evidence, I will politely say that that is outrageously ridiculous.

The movement, the press, the liberal and vocal politicians are all standing for the protesters, and minimalist government the violence and looting. Schurmur today actually said he is proud of the protesters and that the violence in New York is kind of a tradition. They may be right, but one thing is clear- the conservatives do not want looting, And destruction. The Liberals seem to, and are actuallly and openly encouraging it by openly funding bail funds to get people arrested out of jail.

It is interesting tho that those who seem to favor the unrest, would turn around and accuse the side that is trying to stop it, at times with too much force, of doing it.

I was trying to follow, but which part of the post up there was the target of the phrase "outrageously ridiculous."

(I think I might have thoughts, but I want to make sure I know where you're coming from)

Honestbuckeye · « **Reply #2671 on:** June 04, 2020, 10:25:13 PM »

Quote from: bayareabadger on June 04, 2020, 10:08:40 PM

I was trying to follow, but which part of the post up there was the target of the phrase "outrageously ridiculous."

(I think I might have thoughts, but I want to make sure I know where you're coming from)

That the violence is coming from conservatives.

bayareabadger · « **Reply #2672 on:** June 04, 2020, 10:25:41 PM »

Quote from: CWSooner on June 04, 2020, 09:53:56 PM

Apropos of nothing at all, I just happened to come across some shooting statistics. As of mid-December 2019, 38 cops had been murdered in the line of duty (not counting cops shot by other cops). 1004 civilians were shot and killed by cops in 2019. Most of those 1004 were probably justified, but not all of them.

As I and others have noted, the idea that police kill black victims disproportionately is false.

That phrase is interesting because it's imprecise enough to be true and false at the same time.

We've not specified what the proportionality is to. We've also not really specified what a "victim" is. Does that mean an unarmed person? A person that didn't deserve it?

We know black people are killed by police disproportionally to white people. This is math. Unless the numbers are more than 3 to 1 it would be disproportionate to general population. Now one might have to argue we'd have to go into geographic factors. And we'd have to parse through different things.

We also know there's going to be a certain thumb on the scale in all the retellings because there simply isn't much robust oversight. The people shot are dead. The people shooting are the ones often writing the reports. The people overseeing them are most often strongly empathizing with them and very often willing to cover for them. Our data is most often rosier than reality, logic should tell us.

Does this mean these killings are happing all over? Most likely not. They are certianly not happening at the rate that certain hysterias seem to paint. But I do think it's a thing (and you know what, police killing white victims is pretty terrible too)

bayareabadger · « **Reply #2673 on:** June 04, 2020, 10:26:45 PM »

Quote from: Honestbuckeye on June 04, 2020, 10:25:13 PM

That the violence is coming from conservatives.

You mean beside the president telling both police and supporters to rough up people?

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Topic: Misfits Thread

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