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Topic: Misfits Thread

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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1750 on: April 27, 2020, 04:39:26 PM »
Heller and Vonnegut aren't historians.  They can only talk about what they saw, and for the most part that's what they're doing, although Vonnegut overstates what he knows about Dresden.  I think his service in the sorry-ass 106th Infantry Division colored the whole war in his eyes.  And I don't get Heller saying that he never encountered any officers whom he did not respect and yet in Catch-22 the entire chain of command is portrayed as knaves and fools.

Your wrong calling the whole 106th sorry ass.Many of those guys died fighting.And the whole fucking chain of command put them there with no indication or intelligence of what was Brewing.And Vonnegut and those guys made the right decision when finally cornered to give up as the Reich had like a 5-1 advantage at that time.They had no chance of reinforcement or resupply.Maxwell Taylor was stateside at a wedding(thank fully McAuliffe filled in prolly better"NUTS").Montgomery on December 15th said the Reich couldn't mount another offensive and wasn't on the continent.Many in command were celebrating the Holidays and spread around many in Parris rubbing elbows with Movie Stars.It was a novel Heller wrote,it's his narrative so that's a whole different thing
« Last Edit: April 27, 2020, 05:06:07 PM by MrNubbz »
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1751 on: April 27, 2020, 05:24:00 PM »
Catch 22 is a brilliant novel IMHO, but isn't meant to say anything about US Army officers in reality, I think.  I view it more as a parody, an SNL "skit", more about US corporations than the Army.

I'd call the 106th green, which they were.  I'm sure they had the same percentage of brave soldiers as any other division, they were just green.  I wonder how many in the Big Red One were "brave" by then.  Might have been fewer.

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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1752 on: April 27, 2020, 05:33:02 PM »
Do you mean why die now?
“Did I hear God call me an idiot? ”― William P. Young

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1753 on: April 27, 2020, 05:42:36 PM »
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
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Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1754 on: April 27, 2020, 05:43:37 PM »
It could be that green troops are more heroic than seasoned battle hardened troops, though the latter will do just about anything for their mates.


Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1755 on: April 27, 2020, 05:43:58 PM »
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
Fluorosulfonic acid.

OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1756 on: April 27, 2020, 05:57:25 PM »
Fluorosulfonic acid.
Fancy name of elbow grease?
“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier

MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1757 on: April 27, 2020, 06:08:33 PM »
What's the best way to take up a ceramic floor and replace it? Need to remove all of the "glue" too.
Rubber mallet and a spade or mutt would be my guess.Glue - should be thin set mortar,which is portland cement and silicia sand and I forget what else some bonding agents - high jacker
“Did I hear God call me an idiot? ”― William P. Young

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1758 on: April 27, 2020, 06:12:49 PM »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VGraAwtXbEQ

Greatest movie of all time, well, sort of, not really.

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1759 on: April 27, 2020, 06:16:44 PM »
FSO3H is a "strong acid", stronger than sulfuric, which itself is plenty strong.

One interesting feature of these agents is they pull water out of whatever at a high rate.  You don't want them on your skin.

Oddly enough, hydrofluoric acid is a weak acid but extremely dangerous to use.

I think 40 years ago one could order these things as a "civilian".  I sometimes watch trains got by and see tank cars with 88.000 gallons of H2SO4, it is the most widely produced chemical of them all.  Train wrecks would be bad.  And the next car in line would contain something like Ch3CN, acetonitrile.

Or NaOH solution at 88%.  Nasty stuff.


MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1760 on: April 27, 2020, 06:35:37 PM »
Is that what Cerrano is burning in his bowl?Great flick if your a Tribe Fan."They still stink".Been saying that for over 5 decades - just once before I die.Hell who am I kidding even the Cubs have better mojo.Better call Saul.....or Jobu
“Did I hear God call me an idiot? ”― William P. Young

CWSooner

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1761 on: April 27, 2020, 07:55:25 PM »
Your wrong calling the whole 106th sorry ass.Many of those guys died fighting.And the whole fucking chain of command put them there with no indication or intelligence of what was Brewing.And Vonnegut and those guys made the right decision when finally cornered to give up as the Reich had like a 5-1 advantage at that time.They had no chance of reinforcement or resupply.Maxwell Taylor was stateside at a wedding(thank fully McAuliffe filled in prolly better"NUTS").Montgomery on December 15th said the Reich couldn't mount another offensive and wasn't on the continent.Many in command were celebrating the Holidays and spread around many in Parris rubbing elbows with Movie Stars.It was a novel Heller wrote,it's his narrative so that's a whole different thing
"Sorry ass" was probably the wrong term.  But the division was inadequately trained and prepared for combat.  It was not a combat-effective command.  Shame on the Army for putting a unit like that into a combat zone.
There's a chapter by Maurice Matloff titled "The 90-Division Gamble" in the book Command Decisions, edited by Kent Roberts Greenfield.  That's one of the books that made up the Army's post-war "Green Book" official history
"Green Book" official history.  We entered the war estimating that we would need to field 200 divisions.  Later, that was upped to over 300 divisions.  But in January 1943, that was cut back to 90 divisions, and ultimately we only fielded 89.  That meant that by the time of the Battle of the Bulge, the U.S. Army in the ETO was running out of infantrymen.  Infantrymen took by far the heaviest losses of any specialty in the Army.  In desperation, Eisenhower even asked for black soldiers to give up a pay grade and accept transfer into previously all-white divisions.  It was a very close thing.
We made that decision because the U.S. was also providing the bulk of industrial production for the Allies, the bulk of the airpower, and the bulk of naval and amphibious forces.  All of that drew off manpower that otherwise could have gone into Army infantry divisions.
The result was that we had the smallest percentage of our population in the armed forces of any major combatant, and we suffered the smallest percentage of our population as casualties of any major combatant.
Yes, the Allied high command--with the exception of Patton--was complacent and caught unprepared for the German attack.
As far as Vonnegut and his buddies making the right decision when they surrendered, that's debatable.  It's to be expected from inadequately trained troops in an inadequately trained division, though.  OTOH, and we may be thankful for it, every other U.S. division fought better than the 106th.  There were many small American units in the Ardennes that fought until being wiped out or overrun in the Germans' initial penetration, and it was stopping to eliminate those little outposts of resistance that bit by bit slowed the Germans down and threw them off their timetable.
At the end of the day, it was the greatest pitched battle in the U.S. Army's history, and it was a victory.  Hitler had shot his last bolt, and Germany's eventual defeat was hastened.
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1762 on: April 28, 2020, 02:51:18 AM »
I don't think it's debatable there were not any readily available troops in/around their(Vonnegot's) position.And if there were it's no guarentee under those conditions on those hilly roads they'd be relieved.Vonnegut wasn't with much more than a platoon,they couldn't even throw stones they were throwing gravel.So he could have been an anonymous name on a marker.But they would have been wiped out none the same and it wouldn't have changed things.Looking back they made the right decision - they got back albeit a detour.SunTzu would rest the blame on those who thought the war won and set them up to fail.There was a shortage of riflemen but they were all being rushed thru basic training.Instead of putting a whole green division in they should have mixed and integrated them into other units.But the whole mindset there was convalescing - supposedly out of harms way.Those poor Hurtgen Vets got another shit sandwich.My hats off to all of them
« Last Edit: April 28, 2020, 10:04:46 AM by MrNubbz »
“Did I hear God call me an idiot? ”― William P. Young

Cincydawg

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Re: 2020 Offseason Stream of Unconciousness
« Reply #1763 on: April 28, 2020, 08:05:45 AM »
They did of course mix in replacement troops into seasoned divisions.  But the Army had a build up plan to so many divisions they thought would be needed.  At the start, there wasn't a seasoned division, and if you only used replacement troops it wouldn't work to build up to 90 divisions.  

The Russians had over 300 divisions if I recollect right though their divisions were around 10,000 (I think) but with a much smaller "tail".  Russian tanks at that point were awesome.  And numerous.

 

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