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Topic: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread

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MaximumSam

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #28 on: March 13, 2020, 06:46:40 PM »
I will shamelessly announce our sweet 16 appearance this year

mcwterps1

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #29 on: March 14, 2020, 10:58:05 AM »
Get off my lawn.
I didn't think you were like that given our conversations, but you do appear to be sliding into that role. 

847badgerfan

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2020, 11:22:46 AM »
See the source image
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Abba

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2020, 12:06:54 PM »
Medina, I don't really get why you are so against Holtmann.  If he were paid less then you would be happy with the results?  After some rough years with Matta, I have been generally happy with Holtmann despite some rocky Januaries.

It takes some time to build the program, so expecting a team that missed the tournament for several years in a row to win a national title in year 2 or 3 seems like insane expectations.  This is not a basketball blue blood.  Ohio State basketball is basically Iowa football.  

I think if Holtmann can get a few S16 runs, 1 Final Four and make the tournament all or most years, then that is a success.  If Matta were just making the tourney every year, recruiting well, and not having half the team transfer I doubt he would've been let go.  Even getting bounced first round most years.  Besides you, I think most Buckeye fans just have different expectations.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2020, 01:47:24 PM »
Medina, I don't really get why you are so against Holtmann.  If he were paid less then you would be happy with the results?  After some rough years with Matta, I have been generally happy with Holtmann despite some rocky Januaries.

It takes some time to build the program, so expecting a team that missed the tournament for several years in a row to win a national title in year 2 or 3 seems like insane expectations.  This is not a basketball blue blood.  Ohio State basketball is basically Iowa football. 

I think if Holtmann can get a few S16 runs, 1 Final Four and make the tournament all or most years, then that is a success.  If Matta were just making the tourney every year, recruiting well, and not having half the team transfer I doubt he would've been let go.  Even getting bounced first round most years.  Besides you, I think most Buckeye fans just have different expectations.
Ehhh, I think that might be a bit much.

OSU has had some very high-level basketball, though less consistent than an MSU. I'm not sure it has the pieces to become that next level because there's like five schools in that top echelon and the structure of the NCAA tournament means there's just not enough winning to go around. 

I think that Holtmann plan is generally correct because you can't really spend your way up a level. It's not all that feasible. 

medinabuckeye1

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2020, 01:50:06 PM »
Holtmann is pretty danged far from being in the hot seat. They finished 8th in KenPom this year, their best since 2013. He would have to have a disastrous season next year to be on the hot seat.

They should be pretty good next year. I also think they lose both Wessons. Unclear if they lose anyone else. They add Cal transfer Justice Sueing and Musa Jallow returns from his redshirt year. They should have a lot of guards and wings but not a lot of big men. Biggest question for me is development of Kyle Young and EJ Liddell. If they can add a solid three point shot OSU is a national title contender. If not not, may be hard get production offensively.
Like a regular NC contender? Or Big Ten contender?
Max is a lot more optimistic about 2020-2021 than I am, and I think that is the biggest (maybe only) difference of opinion here.

I think we all know that teams/programs have peaks and valleys. If Max is right and 2020-2021 will be as good or better than this year then Holtmann is fine and the program appears to be heading in a good direction.

I am not optimistic about 2020-2021. The Wesson brothers averaged a combined 60 minutes, 23.2 points, and 13.2 rebounds per game. I do not think that can be replaced with 60 more productive minutes.

Going into 2019-2020 I saw it as a "peak" year. If I am right then at this time next year Holtmann will have gone four years without a league title or appearance in the tournament's second weekend. His only team to have seriously contended for a league title was his first, with Matta's recruits.

As far as expectations:
I expect tOSU to be at or above their long-term historical average. That means roughly top three in the B1G. Right now, I do NOT think that this program is in the top third of the league. I think that MSU, UW, and UMD are all clearly ahead of the Buckeyes while IL, IA, M, PU, and IU are all about equal. That puts our program right around the middle.

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2020, 02:39:11 PM »

Going into 2019-2020 I saw it as a "peak" year. If I am right then at this time next year Holtmann will have gone four years without a league title or appearance in the tournament's second weekend. His only team to have seriously contended for a league title was his first, with Matta's recruits.

As far as expectations:
I expect tOSU to be at or above their long-term historical average. That means roughly top three in the B1G. Right now, I do NOT think that this program is in the top third of the league. I think that MSU, UW, and UMD are all clearly ahead of the Buckeyes while IL, IA, M, PU, and IU are all about equal. That puts our program right around the middle.
I'd be interested to see if that got him canned. I doubt it, though it depended on what the step back was. If it was a comfortable 8 seed, probably fine. The issue with CBB is there are so many vectors to success. You've got conference finish (sometimes fickle), team quality, raw wins (oft tricky with schedule), NCAA (super fickle). OSU had a team that on balance to this point played like a top-10 team per KenPom, but the hardware wasn't there, thus we feel worse about it. 

Sticking with the top-3 number, I wanted to look back Matta teams were top 3 46 percent of the times. JOB was 57, Ayers 25, Williams 0 and Miller 30. 

The real question is about the value of change. Simply put, it's not a problem that can be bought out of. More expensive coaches include Tom Crean at UGA, Mick Cronin, Rick Barnes, Larry Krystkowiak, Archie Miller. Holtmann is right there with Painter and Frank Martin (one dance in eight years). In the end, you need to find a guy you believe in and give him the keys and time. And for better or worse, a guy dancing every year gets 6-8 years unless there's an issue behind the scenes. 

MaximumSam

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2020, 05:09:16 PM »
It's worth keeping in mind this was a rebuild job. OSU was 73rd and 76th on KenPom the two years before. It was sneaky because he had a couple talented seniors in Tate and Bates-Diop, but it was a very incomplete team. Last year they had very little talent or experience. This year they were more complete and talented but still very young, and they had a lot of missed time. Next year they will be much older. They will miss the Wessons but they won't miss having to depend on freshmen or going 6 deep.

FearlessF

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #36 on: March 15, 2020, 10:17:28 AM »
Nebraska didn’t waste any time adding more talent to its roster for next season as the Big Red picked up a commitment on Saturday morning from Western Illinois transfer Kobe Webster.

A grad transfer guard, Webster will be eligible immediately next season. The 6-foot guard, Webster was a three-year starter and averaged 17.1 points, 3.6 assists, and 3.2 rebounds in 33.7 minutes per game last season.

The commitment leaves Nebraska one scholarship over the 13-man limit, but attrition is expected as head basketball coach Fred Hoiberg will begin meeting with current members of the Husker team. The addition of Webster gives Nebraska additional backcourt depth in the event that point guard Cam Mack does not return next season. Mack announced Thursday that he was declaring for the NBA, but not hiring an agent so that he can retain his eligibility. Guard Dachon Burke indicated last week that he is focusing on graduation, meaning his future with the program could also be cloudy.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 11:00:01 AM by FearlessF »
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #37 on: March 15, 2020, 11:13:58 AM »
Stockpiling Kobe's? Heh.

Lots of kids named Kobe in that age range. Kinda like we had lots of kids being named Michael or Jordan, 30 years ago.
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847badgerfan

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #38 on: March 15, 2020, 11:18:54 AM »
UW 2021 PG commit Chucky Hepburn led his team to the Nebraska state hoops title yesterday. Chose UW over hometown Creighton, OOS Minnesota and in-state Nebraska. Happy to have him coming in next year.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #39 on: March 15, 2020, 12:05:02 PM »
great player
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

bayareabadger

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Re: 2020-2021 B1G Basketball Thread
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2020, 03:32:42 PM »
UW 2021 PG commit Chucky Hepburn led his team to the Nebraska state hoops title yesterday. Chose UW over hometown Creighton, OOS Minnesota and in-state Nebraska. Happy to have him coming in next year.
Didn't do much in terms of taking over (shot badly), but ran everything well from what I watched.

Weird game. His team ended on like a 16-0 run in a 2-point win. The other team has a Top-30 2021 kid and a 2020 kid going to Stanford. 

FearlessF

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