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Topic: HFA - how much is it worth?

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Cincydawg

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #14 on: July 05, 2019, 11:20:32 AM »
My own opinion is that it's worth less than "we" think.  We see OSU playing at AA and the natural thought is "That could be tough.".

I think it's a factor and varies (Penn State at night) but isn't as large as "we/I" tend to think.  Any analysis should discard home games against  pastries.

https://www.saturdaydownsouth.com/sec-football/home-field-advantage-sec-college-football/

“(Home-field) is typically worth three points but it can be more for certain venues where a team has been particularly tough at home for a stretch of several years,” Edwards said. “Also, if a team travels across country, especially on a short week (BYU at UCF last week), that can result in adding another point (or more) to the home-field advantage. Weather can be another variable … like a team from up North playing at Miami at noon eastern in September or early-mid October.”

medinabuckeye1

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #15 on: July 05, 2019, 11:42:05 AM »
The first such back to back H-A series just wrapped up between Hamilton and Montreal.

First Hamilton won their home game 41-10.

One week later Montreal won their home game 36-29.

So a split, and a 38 point swing in point differential, with the only discernable difference being the venue. Not even a time zone change.
HFA isn't the only thing going on here, IMHO.  Other factors include motivation and what I will call "surprise".  

Motivation:
No matter what anyone says, I think it is difficult to take game prep as seriously as you should when you are preparing for a team that you already beat by 31 points.  

Surprise:
The team that won the first game generally doesn't want to make major changes to their game-plan for the obvious reason that it worked the first time.  Conversely, the team that lost the first time obviously knows that their game-plan from the first game did not get the job done so they HAVE to try something different.  That puts them in a bit of a "nothing to lose" situation where they might as well try something radical.  

My least favorite example of this is the 1975 Buckeyes.  This was Woody's last great team.  Woody's last three teams (1976-1978) each had at least three non-wins.  The 1975 team was the fourth in a row to do no worse than 9-2 (9-2 in 1972, 10-0-1 in 1973, 10-2 in 1974, and 11-1 in 1975).  

  • Preseason #4:  Ohio State finished #4 in the final 1974 poll and started at #4 in the 1975 preseason AP Poll.  
  • 9/8 Poll #3:  The Buckeyes didn't play but #2 Bama lost 20-7 to unranked Mizzou so the Buckeyes moved up to #3.  
  • 9/15 Poll #3:  The Buckeyes shutout #11 Michigan State and stayed #3.  
  • 9/22 Poll #2:  The Buckeyes beat #7 Penn State and moved up to #2 on the strength of back-to-back wins over top-11 opponents.  
  • 9/29 Poll #2:  The Buckeyes beat UNC and stayed at #2 (but they were getting VERY close to #1 OU).  
  • 10/6 Poll #1:  The Buckeyes blew out #13 UCLA on the road and moved up to #1.  
  • 10/13 Poll #1:  
  • 10/20 Poll #1:  
  • 10/27 Poll #1:  
  • 11/3 Poll #1:  
  • 11/10 Poll #1:  Previous #2 OU lost to an unranked Kansas team which had the effect of consolidating Ohio State's hold on #1.  In the 11/10 Poll the Buckeyes had 49 of the 58 first place votes.  
  • 11/17 Poll #1:  
  • 11/24 Poll #1:  A few things happened here:  First, Ohio State went to Ann Arbor and beat #4 Michigan 21-14.  Second, #2 Nebraska lost to #7 OU.  At this point Ohio State had 56 of 59 first place votes and a 150 point lead over #2 aTm.  As it turned out, aTm was a bit of a paper tiger.  After beating Texas on 11/28 they got blown out by Arkansas (12/6 in Little Rock) and USC (12/22 in the Liberty Bowl).  
  • 12/1 Poll #1:  This was the penultimate poll of 1975 and the Buckeyes were firmly in control with 50 of 58 first place votes and a substantial lead over #2 aTm which was about to lose two straight anyway.  

In the final pre-bowl poll the Buckeyes were firmly in command.  Then the Rose Bowl happened.  

Remember that #13 UCLA team that Ohio State blew out to move up to #1?  

The Buckeyes lost to (then) #11 UCLA in a Rose Bowl rematch to finish #4 behind #1 Oklahoma (lost 23-3 to a Kansas team that finished 7-5), #2 ASU (played a WAC schedule), and #3 Bama (ran the table after the aforementioned 20-7 loss to a Mizzou team that finished 6-5).  

Plausible contenders in the bowls:
  • #1 Ohio State lost 23-10 to #11 UCLA in the Rose Bowl
  • #2 aTm lost 20-0 to unranked USC in the Liberty Bowl and also lost 31-6 to #18 Arkansas
  • #3 Oklahoma beat #5 Michigan 14-6 in the Orange Bowl
  • #4 Bama beat #8 Penn State 13-6 in the Sugar Bowl
  • #5 Michigan lost 14-6 to #3 Oklahoma in the Orange Bowl
  • #6 Nebraska lost 17-14 to #7 ASU in the Fiesta Bowl
  • #7 ASU beat #6 Nebraska 17-14 in the Fiesta Bowl


The Buckeyes didn't even get any first place votes in the final poll despite the fact that their 13 point loss to final #5 UCLA was a heck of a lot better than #1 Oklahoma's 20 point loss to unranked Kansas or #3 Bama's 13 point loss to unranked Mizzou.  Oh well.  

CWSooner

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #16 on: July 05, 2019, 12:56:15 PM »
Good analysis, Medina.

I remember that I was rooting for Michigan to beat Ohio State, as I thought that there was more likelihood of that happening than the Buckeyes losing in the Rose Bowl, and OU certainly wasn't going to catch them if they remained unbeaten.

The Buckeyes were unlucky in that their one loss was their last game.  Oklahoma's loss to Kansas was a bigger loss to a worse team, but it came in early November.

All other things being equal, Ohio State probably would have been national champs had they lost to UCLA early in the season and then won the Rose Bowl rematch.

OTOH, everything broke right for OU there at the end.
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ALA2262

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #17 on: July 05, 2019, 02:02:56 PM »
You're going to hate me for this, but I think who you play the week before matters here. 

medina, all of what you've said makes sense, and it's likely true. 




One thing I've never come across are any interviews with OC or DC asking if their play calls are ever influenced by home vs road.  I doubt it, but it may be the case.
Who you play the week before matters a helluva lot. I will never forget the perfect example for me. Drew will object because it concerns ut, but perhaps the others won't because it also involves PSU.

When Coach Bryant and Paterno scheduled the 10 year ('81-'90) series, Coach Bryant was compelled to use FOUR dates ('82-'85) he had set aside in order to take a bye before the ut game. From 1971-1994 Bama lost only FOUR games to ut. The FOUR losses were consecutive. Guess which FOUR years in that glorious (for Bama) 24 year period that Bama lost to ut.

http://football.stassen.com/cgi-bin/records/opp-opp.pl?start=1971&end=1994&team1=Alabama&team2=Tennessee

Cincydawg

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #18 on: July 05, 2019, 02:29:42 PM »
I'm going to start calling medina "MiniBobs".

MrNubbz

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2019, 03:01:35 PM »
I don't remember Bobs being around for all that long quite frankly
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FearlessF

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2019, 03:02:32 PM »
Bobs was a long timer at other previous sites
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MrNubbz

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2019, 03:06:37 PM »
I'm talking from '03/'04 when I joined CFN until moving here.Most of the guys posting here and some who haven't made were more prevelant - IMO
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Cincydawg

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2019, 03:16:23 PM »
The Bobs was around long enough to get a nickname.  I recall having some long discussions with him where he used his data base.

FearlessF

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #23 on: July 05, 2019, 05:13:16 PM »
Bobs wasn't the most chatty guy, small doses but with substance
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Cincydawg

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Re: HFA - how much is it worth?
« Reply #24 on: July 05, 2019, 07:50:57 PM »
Bobs wasn't the most chatty guy, small doses but with substance

He could be surly at times, little patience for idiots like me.  I had to adjust and realize he really KNEW his stuff and when he spoke, it was real.

He hung me out to dry a few times.

Well, so has nearly everyone.  I vaguely recall being new here and giving Badger some guff.

 

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