header pic

Perhaps the BEST B1G Forum anywhere, here at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' CFN/Scout Crowd- Enjoy Civil discussion, game analytics, in depth player and coaching 'takes' and discussing topics surrounding the game. You can even have your own free board, all you have to do is ask!!!

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness

 (Read 128477 times)

bayareabadger

  • Legend
  • ****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 7851
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1862 on: August 04, 2019, 06:45:37 PM »
Because I watch old games on YouTube, I pulled up the MSU-UW 2011 game. I'd forgotten how deeply frustrating that was well before the comeback and Hail Mary. An awesome UW offense just pissed away some chances there. 

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1863 on: August 04, 2019, 07:31:58 PM »
How many defensive plays would be typical?

Often, I see the D looking to the sideline and then the presnap lineup is the same as always.  I realize they are getting coverages which don't happen until post snap.

I figure an overly complicated defense can lead to missed assignments.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12184
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1864 on: August 04, 2019, 09:08:43 PM »
 

So anyway, less remains more. Your base is your best plays, not your most tired. And if your vanilla is ineffective, that should be more concerning than less.
Said a few years ago by Smartfootball... 

http://smartfootball.com/offense/why-every-team-should-apply-the-constraint-theory-of-offense#sthash.trcGETK0.dpbs

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12184
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1865 on: August 04, 2019, 09:36:21 PM »
We got a couple of bird feeders for the back patio this year. 

Hummingbirds are assholes. 

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17141
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1866 on: August 04, 2019, 11:05:28 PM »
I know they like sugar water or jelly but according to my neighbor not jam/preserves
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1867 on: August 06, 2019, 06:33:11 AM »
We had three hummers at our house in Cincy.  I THINK they were related as they would rarely fight each other, they'd usually take turns.  I would often sit with a book near their feeder and they didn't much like me, they'd hover 5 feet away as if I was supposed to move.  The finally got used to me and ignored me.

The wife was hoping to attract some here but I didn't know if they'd get up this high, but one has found her flowers.  One is a bright red large flower the hummer seems to like, I forget the name of the plant, something tropical as it has to come in in winter.  Hibiscus is what it is.  My brain isn't quite a dead as I thought.



She also has a plumeria from Hawaii that is growing nicely, but small flowers.

MrNubbz

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 17141
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1868 on: August 06, 2019, 08:23:09 AM »
Said a few years ago by Smartfootball...

http://smartfootball.com/offense/why-every-team-should-apply-the-constraint-theory-of-offense#sthash.trcGETK0.dpbs
Good article thanx,but a lot of that would be based on the QB's ability to read/audibilize correctly and change it up in time 
Suburbia:Where they tear out the trees & then name streets after them.

FearlessF

  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 37510
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1869 on: August 06, 2019, 10:03:58 AM »
the type of QB Frost wants

he and the stogie smoking QB guru call them, "quick blinkers"
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12184
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1870 on: August 06, 2019, 11:35:36 AM »
Good article thanx,but a lot of that would be based on the QB's ability to read/audibilize correctly and change it up in time
Actually, it's more of a playcalling issue by the OC in the booth. 

You have your "bread and butter" offense. The things that work against base defenses. If you're successful running those, there's no reason to switch it up. If the OC notices the defense "cheating" to take those away, he has play calls designed to beat those cheats. The simplest example is a play-action pass. If a team is playing disciplined defense, the safeties will remain back until it is 100% clear that the play is a run, and thus they can still cover if it's a pass. Play-action isn't a great playcall against a disciplined defense. But if a team has been getting gashed by the run and the safeties start biting hard to support the LBs against the run, the OC in the booth will be able to see that and the play-action is the perfect exploit. 

Now, if you have a QB who is ALSO adept at audibles, it can help, because if the QB and OC are on the same page, the QB can see things in real time and check into plays designed to beat the cheats. 

But even without the QB doing it pre-snap, the OC can make calls designed to burn a defense for trying to cheat and take away the bread and butter. 

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1871 on: August 06, 2019, 11:42:46 AM »
So anyway, less remains more. Your base is your best plays, not your most tired. And if your vanilla is ineffective, that should be more concerning than less.
Thanks for the opus, BAB. I enjoyed that. And the closer, I think, is what fans are getting at when they complain -- not whether the base is often called but whether the base is any good. 

[Edit]

Ah! there are two more aspects I'd like to see you touch upon: timing of play calls (in which ways it matters) and pattern-breaking.

Cincydawg

  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 71536
  • Oracle of Piedmont Park
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1872 on: August 06, 2019, 12:11:54 PM »
How many options does a QB typically have when he comes up to the line?  Does he call 2-3 plays in the huddle?

I see him wiggle his fingers at the RB often, does that perhaps change whether he goes left or right?

I presume having a QB like a Jake Fromm is a huge advantage in this area.

betarhoalphadelta

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 12184
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1873 on: August 06, 2019, 01:04:34 PM »
Thanks for the opus, BAB. I enjoyed that. And the closer, I think, is what fans are getting at when they complain -- not whether the base is often called but whether the base is any good.
I thought this was also well discussed in the Smartfootball post... 

Basically they say that the idea of going to constraint plays is what you do when the defense is cheating to take your base away.

However, if the other team is just better than you, and they can beat your base offense with base defense, well then constraint plays aren't going to help. It'll beat those too. 

Your base "not being any good" could be due to a lot of reasons...

At the college level, a big one isn't even offensive design but practice time and execution. I consider this to be a lot of the problem with the Purdue team under Hazell/Shoop. Shoop had an incredibly complex playbook. Maybe it was even really good. But I think most of the reason the offense sucked was not because his offensive concepts were faulty, but because the playbook was too complex and the team couldn't adequately practice it enough to make it automatic. You don't need to worry about the defense beating you if you can't even execute it yourself.

This was one of the big things that Leach did. He simplified everything. He would often teach his receivers their route trees only from the left side of the offense or the right side. Yeah, it led to less misdirection, but it made sure they made effective use of practice. It was one of the big things that Chip Kelly did. The "hurry up" offensive pace meant that they could get more actual play reps in during active practice hours than other teams. It then had a benefit on game day too, but it was a very simple offense executed well because it could be practiced more thoroughly in limited hours than others.

The Badgers get this. They have an identity. They are going to run the ball down your throat until you stop it. It's not a complicated offense. It's mostly the same concepts. But it's well-practiced and well-executed. And outside of a handful of helmet teams, NOBODY can stop it without loading the box and selling out against the run. They don't want or care about throwing the ball, but once a team starts selling out against the run, they'll burn you with the pass. It's one of the perfect teams IMHO to show the base/constraint interplay. 

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1874 on: August 06, 2019, 02:15:40 PM »
That's a good addition. Many fans look at "execution" excuses as a cop out. But it's clear that aside from inspiring (effort and confidence), coaching is mostly about teaching (downloading an idea into a kid's brain with high fidelity [no confusion] and then facilitating its mastery). That all precedes offensive style and playcalls, I take it.

Anonymous Coward

  • All Star
  • ******
  • Posts: 3187
  • Liked:
Re: 2019 Offseason Stream of Unconsciousness
« Reply #1875 on: August 06, 2019, 02:17:26 PM »
Ah, another thing I'd like to cover:

Putting a defender in conflict -- acknowledging when a defender's responsibilities cannot be simultaneously performed, then make him pick one which can often mean make him pick incorrectly.

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.