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Topic: 2019 NFL Draft

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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #224 on: April 01, 2019, 08:11:59 PM »
I'm sure he also had the most playoff carries

by a wide margin

he has the stats, because he has the attempts

I'm not saying he wasn't a great back, he's just not in my all-time top 10
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #225 on: April 01, 2019, 09:41:40 PM »
Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2019, 08:11:59 PM
I'm sure he also had the most playoff carries

by a wide margin

he has the stats, because he has the attempts

I'm not saying he wasn't a great back, he's just not in my all-time top 10
2nd in carries, 50 behind Franco Harris, but with more yards.  Emmitt's ypc is actually higher in the playoffs than during the regular season for his career.  So against the best teams in the league, he was at his best.
Not having Smith in your top 10 RBs is hilarious and ignores what actually took place on the field.  It'd be like ranking cars by how they look and not by how they perform.  
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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #226 on: April 01, 2019, 10:23:27 PM »
you, sir, are ranking Emmett by how his stats look and not by how he performed on the field

not just my opinion, Gil Brandt shares my opinion

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000815786/gil-brandt's-25-greatest-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time

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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #227 on: April 01, 2019, 10:51:22 PM »
here's a good one where Barry and Emmett go head to head, only to lose to sweetness

https://www.foxsports.com/nfl/bracket/ranking-the-16-greatest-running-backs-in-nfl-history-33
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MarqHusker

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #228 on: April 01, 2019, 11:03:06 PM »
Marcus Allen was good in old age.  He was almost never a high carry back, usually 180-220 carries but the guys had 700+ yd seasons at ages 33-36, still catching balls.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #229 on: April 02, 2019, 12:34:27 AM »
Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2019, 10:23:27 PM
you, sir, are ranking Emmett by how his stats look and not by how he performed on the field  uhhh, these are the same thing, lol

not just my opinion, Gil Brandt shares my opinion

http://www.nfl.com/photoessays/0ap3000000815786/gil-brandt's-25-greatest-nfl-running-backs-of-all-time


Who the hell is Gil Brandt?!?  He has Sanders 7th and Bo Jackson 4th.  You sure you want to marry his rankings?  Yeesh.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #230 on: April 02, 2019, 12:57:45 AM »
I guess if Emmitt wasn't that good, then other players would've done what he did, right?  I mean, in 98 years, dozens of franchises, tens of thousands of team seasons, whatever Emmitt Smith did would almost be common.

But looking at Sanders first:
Barry ran for 99 TDs.  That's a lot.  Nine other players have more than that.
He ran for 15,000+ yards.  Wow!  Two players ran for more.
He also carried the ball 3,000+ times in his career.  Incredible!  Six other players have more.

Smith?  Yawn.
164 rushing TDs.  The most ever.
18,000+ yards.  Number one.
4,400+ carries.  No one had more.
If Emmitt was so ordinary, taking a back seat to others, why is he at the top of all the major lists?  Just lucky, I guess.  
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Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #231 on: April 02, 2019, 07:12:21 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 12:57:45 AM
I guess if Emmitt wasn't that good, then other players would've done what he did, right?  I mean, in 98 years, dozens of franchises, tens of thousands of team seasons, whatever Emmitt Smith did would almost be common.

But looking at Sanders first:
Barry ran for 99 TDs.  That's a lot.  Nine other players have more than that.
He ran for 15,000+ yards.  Wow!  Two players ran for more.
He also carried the ball 3,000+ times in his career.  Incredible!  Six other players have more.

Smith?  Yawn.
164 rushing TDs.  The most ever.
18,000+ yards.  Number one.
4,400+ carries.  No one had more.
If Emmitt was so ordinary, taking a back seat to others, why is he at the top of all the major lists?  Just lucky, I guess.  

I don’t think anyone is making the argument Smith was ordinary.  I think the debate is was he better than Sanders?  I would take Sanders although both were unquestionably great.  I think anyone who takes Sanders does so thinking he played under circumstances that probably made his stats harder to achieve than Smith’s were (even though Smith’s stats were great).  Doesn’t mean we are right in thinking that but I do think, in general, that’s the mindset.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #232 on: April 02, 2019, 09:20:46 AM »
I haven't said once that Emmitt was better than Sanders.  But we've got people here saying he wasn't one of the 10 best in history, which I have to simply label trolling with how absurd it is.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #233 on: April 02, 2019, 09:28:39 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 12:34:27 AM
Who the hell is Gil Brandt?!?  He has Sanders 7th and Bo Jackson 4th.  You sure you want to marry his rankings?  Yeesh.
Dude,
These rankings are subjective opinions.  Just using Gil as an example of someone that shares the single view that Emmett was not one of the top ten backs.
you have your opinion, so does everyone else.
Stating that my opinion is hilarious and ignores what actually took place on the field.  Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
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Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #234 on: April 02, 2019, 09:53:24 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 09:20:46 AM
I haven't said once that Emmitt was better than Sanders.  But we've got people here saying he wasn't one of the 10 best in history, which I have to simply label trolling with how absurd it is.
Well, he showed you a former NFL executive who didn’t have Smith in his top 10.  No one is right or wrong in doing that. Everybody values different things.
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FearlessF

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #235 on: April 02, 2019, 11:43:00 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 02, 2019, 12:34:27 AM
Who the hell is Gil Brandt?!?  He has Sanders 7th and Bo Jackson 4th.  You sure you want to marry his rankings?  Yeesh.
Gil Brandt is a former Vice President of player personnel in the National Football League for the Dallas Cowboys from 1960 to 1988. He is a graduate from the University of Wisconsin.
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betarhoalphadelta

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #236 on: April 02, 2019, 12:17:07 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on April 01, 2019, 07:35:13 PM
Emmitt is also the all-time leader in playoff rushing yards and TDs, with no one currently near him.  I'm not exactly sure what more he was supposed to do.  
Quote from: FearlessF on April 01, 2019, 08:11:59 PM
I'm sure he also had the most playoff carries

by a wide margin

he has the stats, because he has the attempts

I'm not saying he wasn't a great back, he's just not in my all-time top 10
For me, any sort of "all-time leader in playoff rushing yards and TDs", despite being only 2nd on the all-time playoff carries list, tells me something:

Emmitt was on a lot of good teams, with a lot of good blockers in front of him. That's why he was in so many playoff games.
Now this is my prior bias, where I find it difficult to evaluate RB performance in a vacuum, ESPECIALLY based on stats, without accounting for the blocking in front. I see the same thing with the Badgers. Their line makes a pedestrian back look good, and a good back look amazing. Same with Alabama. Their running backs get drafted high almost every year, but their actual NFL performance is all over the map, because you can't accurately evaluate them when they're running behind a great line. 
Now, I'm not going to get into the "rate player X here and player Y there", because I frankly don't care and don't watch enough NFL to do it. But I think the point is valid that evaluating RB talent is really difficult to do without accounting for the line in front of them. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #237 on: April 02, 2019, 01:37:48 PM »
You can look up when Emmitt was out, other DAL RBs had worse ypc averages (with the same OL).  His backups (with the same OL) averaged worse ypc averages up until he was in his 30s.  

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