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Topic: 2019 NFL Draft

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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #182 on: March 29, 2019, 09:53:52 PM »
My favorite Barry Sanders stat is that he had the most carries for no gain or a loss in NFL history.
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Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #183 on: March 30, 2019, 11:05:18 AM »
Payton had 6 winning seasons, 5 losing, and 2 at .500.
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Mdot21

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #184 on: March 30, 2019, 12:42:13 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2019, 08:22:55 PM
B - actually, yes, you do take the RB if he's the best player on the board if you already have Barry Sanders and you immediately trade him - at the absolute maximum leverege possible.  You'd extract more from any team trying to trade up to your spot by securing his rights with the pick first, so then the team wanting him has to give you whatever you ask for.  If a team did that in 3 straight drafts, it'd make a killing.
Lions actually did that 3 straight drafts. They took WR's Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and then Mike Williams in the 1st round in 3 straight drafts. They didn't exactly make a killing. Rogers and Mike Williams were huge busts, and while they were able to trade Roy Williams to Dallas for multiple draft picks, they absolutely bungled that hit by taking mediocre players with all those picks.
« Last Edit: March 30, 2019, 12:58:07 PM by Mdot21 »
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Mdot21

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #185 on: March 30, 2019, 12:57:44 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 29, 2019, 09:53:52 PM
My favorite Barry Sanders stat is that he had the most carries for no gain or a loss in NFL history.
Yeah, like it's totally his fault 9 times out of 10 there were guys in the backfield as soon as he took the snap? His OL's were garbage and his QB play was garbage for most of his career.
And he STILL ran for 15,269 yards in just 10 seasons, averaged 5.0 yards per carry for his career, averaged over 1,500 yards rushing a season, and ran for over 1,100+ yards a season for 10 straight seasons. The only year he didn't have at least 1,300+ yards rushing in a season was the year he was hurt and missed the final 6 games of the season and ran for 1,115 yards in 10 games.
I will still to this day never forget a play he made against the Vikings. John Randle and two other Vikings DL had him dead to rights 5 yards behind the LOS before Barry ever touched the ball. They were in the backfield right after the snap ready to hit Barry for a loss immediately. Barry stopped his feet then jumped back as soon as he got the ball, did a crazy 360 spin move, jumped backwards again made all 3 of them look like fools then hit the juice and went straight up the middle for a 10 yard gain on what should have absolutely been a 5 yard loss. Any other RB- that's a 5 yard loss. Barry Sanders did crazy shit like that every single game. Every single game. His OL was a disgrace. He was literally unbelievable. You had to watch him to believe it. The things he could do, no one else could do. To this day.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #186 on: March 30, 2019, 01:16:00 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2019, 12:42:13 PM
Lions actually did that 3 straight drafts. They took WR's Charles Rogers, Roy Williams, and then Mike Williams in the 1st round in 3 straight drafts. They didn't exactly make a killing. Rogers and Mike Williams were huge busts, and while they were able to trade Roy Williams to Dallas for multiple draft picks, they absolutely bungled that hit by taking mediocre players with all those picks.
They didn't do what I prescribed.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #187 on: March 30, 2019, 01:17:57 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2019, 12:57:44 PM
Yeah, like it's totally his fault 9 times out of 10 there were guys in the backfield as soon as he took the snap?This seems like a made up stat... His OL's were garbage and his QB play was garbage for most of his career.
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2019, 12:57:44 PM
And he STILL ran for 15,269 yards in just 10 seasons, averaged 5.0 yards per carry for his career, averaged over 1,500 yards rushing a season, and ran for over 1,100+ yards a season for 10 straight seasons. The only year he didn't have at least 1,300+ yards rushing in a season was the year he was hurt and missed the final 6 games of the season and ran for 1,115 yards in 10 games.
I will still to this day never forget a play he made against the Vikings. John Randle and two other Vikings DL had him dead to rights 5 yards behind the LOS before Barry ever touched the ball. They were in the backfield right after the snap ready to hit Barry for a loss immediately. Barry stopped his feet then jumped back as soon as he got the ball, did a crazy 360 spin move, jumped backwards again made all 3 of them look like fools then hit the juice and went straight up the middle for a 10 yard gain on what should have absolutely been a 5 yard loss. Any other RB- that's a 5 yard loss. Barry Sanders did crazy shit like that every single game. Every single game. His OL was a disgrace. He was literally unbelievable. You had to watch him to believe it. The things he could do, no one else could do. To this day.
A major reason there hasn't been another Barry Sanders is because no coach would teach his RB to run like he did.  
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Mdot21

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #188 on: March 30, 2019, 06:29:42 PM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 30, 2019, 01:17:57 PM
A major reason there hasn't been another Barry Sanders is because no coach would teach his RB to run like he did.  
You can’t teach what he could do. Barry Sanders’ ability to stop and start and get to full speed from 0-60 and cut and juke and accelerate through cuts is virtually unparalleled. I’ve only seen two guys even a little bit close in LeSean McCoy and Saquon Barkley and even then those guys fall well short of Barry Sanders.
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #189 on: March 30, 2019, 06:54:15 PM »
Barry was great at stoping/starting but this was magnified on artificial turf.When the Browns had Eric Metcalf he made 5 guys miss him - on turf.Sanders was special no doubt but the guys mentioned are all equal in there own ways.Knock on Sanders is he was actually a shade under 5'8".Class act all the way.He could have easily made 1-2 thousand yards more
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MrNubbz

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #190 on: March 30, 2019, 06:58:31 PM »
Quote from: Kris60 on March 30, 2019, 11:05:18 AM
Payton had 6 winning seasons, 5 losing, and 2 at .500.
I didn't look it up I just seemed like the Bears being very bad for many years from the mid '70s to the early '80's
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Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #191 on: March 30, 2019, 07:57:49 PM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2019, 06:29:42 PM
You can’t teach what he could do. Barry Sanders’ ability to stop and start and get to full speed from 0-60 and cut and juke and accelerate through cuts is virtually unparalleled. I’ve only seen two guys even a little bit close in LeSean McCoy and Saquon Barkley and even then those guys fall well short of Barry Sanders.
I think what he’s saying (and he can correct me if I’m wrong) is Sanders had a very feast or famine approach to carrying the ball. All those negative and zero yardage carries weren’t always poor line play.  It was sometimes Sanders not willing to take a 3 yard gain.  WVU had a back named Noel Devine that had a very similar approach.  When he left school I believe he had 7 career runs that went for over 70 yards and no other back in school history had more than 2.  
The flip side of that was Devine could take a 3 yard gain and turn it into a 1 yard loss very easily by bouncing it outside, starting, stopping, spinning, and jitterbugging trying to break a long run.  Sanders greatness is unquestioned but one of the few knocks on him was sometimes he wouldn’t just duck his head and get what was there.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #192 on: March 31, 2019, 11:17:43 AM »
Quote from: Mdot21 on March 30, 2019, 06:29:42 PM
You can’t teach what he could do. Barry Sanders’ ability to stop and start and get to full speed from 0-60 and cut and juke and accelerate through cuts is virtually unparalleled. I’ve only seen two guys even a little bit close in LeSean McCoy and Saquon Barkley and even then those guys fall well short of Barry Sanders.
I assume you've seen all-time RB shows or clips about Sanders and the Lions' coaches and players would even say they'd design plays where this guy is blocked and that guy goes there, and then that LB, Barry will get past him, etc., right?
That's the problem, they were actually designing plays where they didn't try to block it how they should.  The Lions didn't feel the need to improve their OL, which was stupid.  They didn't design sound running plays, which was stupid.  Barry Sanders ran like he did because he had to, and 29 other teams were smarter than that.  29 other teams tried improving their OL over time.  29 other teams had sound blocking schemes.  29 other teams taught their RB to hit the hole hard.  
Sanders was a great, unique talent, because he had to be.  He was a victim of circumstance as much as he was a great talent.
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #193 on: March 31, 2019, 11:19:25 AM »
It's along the lines of what I said about a team's offense being held hostage by a QB with a big arm.  Even if running the ball 5% more often would net more wins (potentially), OCs feel obligated to throw the ball more, the stronger their QB's arm is.  Just because they feel like they should.  They have no evidence to cite that doing so will make the team more successful.

It's stupid.
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Kris60

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #194 on: March 31, 2019, 11:28:44 AM »
Quote from: OrangeAfroMan on March 31, 2019, 11:17:43 AM
I assume you've seen all-time RB shows or clips about Sanders and the Lions' coaches and players would even say they'd design plays where this guy is blocked and that guy goes there, and then that LB, Barry will get past him, etc., right?
That's the problem, they were actually designing plays where they didn't try to block it how they should.  The Lions didn't feel the need to improve their OL, which was stupid.  They didn't design sound running plays, which was stupid.  Barry Sanders ran like he did because he had to, and 29 other teams were smarter than that.  29 other teams tried improving their OL over time.  29 other teams had sound blocking schemes.  29 other teams taught their RB to hit the hole hard.  
Sanders was a great, unique talent, because he had to be.  He was a victim of circumstance as much as he was a great talent.
I don’t know if I totally buy that.  To begin with, every running play in the history of football is designed with the hope/belief that the ball carrier can make one guy miss.  That’s just sheer numbers.  But I find it hard to believe the Lions would leave defenders unblocked that schematically should be blocked because they just simply believed Sanders would find a way to make them miss. 
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OrangeAfroMan

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Re: 2019 NFL Draft
« Reply #195 on: March 31, 2019, 11:30:09 AM »
Look it up.
It could very well be embellishing for this interview to make Sanders seem more impressive, but he was so good that you wouldn't have to do that.


And the only time you don't block a guy purposely would be the playside safety, and that'd only be sometimes.  Everyone else is accounted for unless it's a read play (they didn't do that back then) or maybe a trap.  Aside from backside defenders, you get a hat-on-a-hat wherever the ball is going.
« Last Edit: March 31, 2019, 11:35:24 AM by OrangeAfroMan »
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“The Swamp is where Gators live.  We feel comfortable there, but we hope our opponents feel tentative. A swamp is hot and sticky and can be dangerous." - Steve Spurrier
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