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Topic: #2 Penn State (4-1, 7-1) at #6 Ohio State (5-0, 7-1) Post Game

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MaximumSam

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #28 on: October 24, 2017, 06:53:28 PM »
Quote from: TresselownsUM on October 24, 2017, 03:47:03 PM

what Ohio St can't do, which is what we've seemed to do lately in big games is try to throw the ball sideline to sideline, sure you might catch it, but it's a 1-3 yard gain, and when you got JK and Weber in the backfield it makes a helluva lot more sense to me to give it to one of those studs.

*Football Nerd Alert*
OSU started getting more into screens after the Oklahoma game, and a parade of Buckeye fans went on and on about how that stuff works against little teams but will never work against good teams.  But the screen game in this offense is not the goal of the offense.  The entire point of the screen passes to wide receivers is to get the defense to commit to defend them.  When the safeties and linebacker are thinking screen, they have to run hard towards the receiver.  If they are running toward the receiver, that (1) allows OSU fake and throw the ball down field and more importantly (2) run the ball up the middle, where now fewer defenders are.
This is in stark contrast to last year, where we didn't do much of anything in the pass game to move defenders out of the box or punish them for committing to stopping the run.  The spread works by literally spreading out the defense, and the screen is an important part of spreading out the defense.
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Roaddawg

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #29 on: October 24, 2017, 07:06:04 PM »
Quote from: MaximumSam on October 24, 2017, 06:53:28 PM
*Football Nerd Alert*
OSU started getting more into screens after the Oklahoma game, and a parade of Buckeye fans went on and on about how that stuff works against little teams but will never work against good teams.  But the screen game in this offense is not the goal of the offense.  The entire point of the screen passes to wide receivers is to get the defense to commit to defend them.  When the safeties and linebacker are thinking screen, they have to run hard towards the receiver.  If they are running toward the receiver, that (1) allows OSU fake and throw the ball down field and more importantly (2) run the ball up the middle, where now fewer defenders are.
This is in stark contrast to last year, where we didn't do much of anything in the pass game to move defenders out of the box or punish them for committing to stopping the run.  The spread works by literally spreading out the defense, and the screen is an important part of spreading out the defense.
The QB has to be able to make that throw, and when he does, he can not throw the ball 5 yrds behind the open guy, or throw it in a manner as to disrupt his stride, which Barrett does A LOT.  Even in these last three games, where he has loaded his stat margin, he has missed some very easy throws.  I have been to two games, which allows you to see a lot more than what the TV camera does, and it is not the WR's.  The issue of does tOSU have an offensive identity is a huge question.  Urban seems to be his own worst enemy on that front.  I hope he can get away from the death grip control he seems to have on the offense and let Wilson do his job. 
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MrNubbz

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #30 on: October 24, 2017, 07:40:56 PM »
Quote from: Roaddawg on October 24, 2017, 07:06:04 PM
The QB has to be able to make that throw, and when he does, he can not throw the ball 5 yrds behind the open guy, or throw it in a manner as to disrupt his stride, which Barrett does A LOT.  
Stop it RD or you'll have to answer to HB.Barrett has lost his mojo and I really hope I eat crow but it's maddening.We've seen him mop the floor vs competition he should but shrinks on the big stage.Joe Burrow went 22-28 in 2016 vs same players and lead receivers and in tight windows.Burrow  threw for 11,400 yds in HS.I really,really hope the 2014 JTB shows up.The Coordinator/lineman/Receivers have turned over just Urbs & JT left to answer - hope they show up big
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #31 on: October 24, 2017, 08:06:32 PM »
He has the highest completion rate in the conference ( or tied for it). He is not missing many, and certainly not as many as just about everyone else.

The identity is obvious to me. Route patterns are completely different and the play selection is too.  Clearly, Wilson is making a huge impact.  

Now will it be enough to beat PSU?  I doubt it, but they are an excellent team that is incredibly balanced on both sides of the ball.   
« Last Edit: October 24, 2017, 08:08:35 PM by Honestbuckeye »
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Roaddawg

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #32 on: October 24, 2017, 08:10:31 PM »
The only excuse I give Barrett is the turn stile on right tackle.  The last three games have been a good showing only because he has been able to physically out man the guy across from him.  I expect to see PSU do the samething OU did, load the line against the run and the short screen throws in the backfield, and force Barrett to throw in 3rd and long while bringing the pressure-which he can not do, and thus will try and run his way out of the play.  I would love to see Urban come out throwing the ball all over the field, but........won't happen.
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #33 on: October 24, 2017, 08:12:18 PM »
Yeah, let's turn over to a guy that was great in HS.  

Barrett is far from perfect, but he has won way more big games then he has lost, leads the conference in QBR, TDs, least interceptions, yards per pass, and is 2nd in total yards.  
But I will take your word for it, as opposed to Meyer's and Wilsons.    LOL. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #34 on: October 24, 2017, 08:15:37 PM »
Quote from: Roaddawg on October 24, 2017, 08:10:31 PM
The only excuse I give Barrett is the turn stile on right tackle.  The last three games have been a good showing only because he has been able to physically out man the guy across from him.  I expect to see PSU do the samething OU did, load the line against the run and the short screen throws in the backfield, and force Barrett to throw in 3rd and long while bringing the pressure-which he can not do, and thus will try and run his way out of the play.  I would love to see Urban come out throwing the ball all over the field, but........won't happen.
Where teams have given him trouble is by dropping 7-8 into a zone.  All that leaves is the short stuff, and mostly to the side as it clogs the middle.  It is common, although you can't blame them. Teams that have gone mostly Man against Ohio State have paid dearly for it. 
It's what Iowa did, and Michigan didn't do, to Penn State.  
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Roaddawg

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #35 on: October 24, 2017, 08:30:21 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 24, 2017, 08:15:37 PM
Where teams have given him trouble is by dropping 7-8 into a zone.  All that leaves is the short stuff, and mostly to the side as it clogs the middle.  It is common, although you can't blame them. Teams that have gone mostly Man against Ohio State have paid dearly for it.
It's what Iowa did, and Michigan didn't do, to Penn State.  
Exactly and from a 5th year guy, who has played in several huge games against several different defenses, he should be able to see that and does not seem to be able to adjust. Would you not agree that a guy with is experience and stats, should be able to make those adjustments? 
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MrNubbz

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #36 on: October 24, 2017, 08:34:46 PM »
Yes I would OH,you weren't talking to me ;)
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #37 on: October 24, 2017, 08:36:34 PM »
Quote from: MrNubbz on October 24, 2017, 07:40:56 PM
Stop it RD or you'll have to answer to HB.Barrett has lost his mojo and I really hope I eat crow but it's maddening.We've seen him mop the floor vs competition he should but shrinks on the big stage.Joe Burrow went 22-28 in 2016 vs same players and lead receivers and in tight windows.Burrow  threw for 11,400 yds in HS.I really,really hope the 2014 JTB shows up.The Coordinator/lineman/Receivers have turned over just Urbs & JT left to answer - hope they show up big
Shrinks on a big stage?   Let's look at that.
What is he, 37-4 as a starter.  He is 3-0 versus Michigan.   2-1 versus MSU. 2-1 versus Penn State. 1-0 versus Notre Dame in Bowl. 1-1 versus Oklahoma. 2-0 versus Wisconsin 
And 0-1 against the NC Clemson team. Not only did he not shrink in most of those games, in many cases he took them over and was the reason OSU won.
In my view, he has had two bad games on a big stage out of 15 games I would label as Big.
And in both of those two- he got no help from the OC, or the offensive line, or the receivers.
His biggest fault to me is that he usually doesn't throw guys open.  That costs some TDs but also eliminates interceptions.  
This year, he has improved in that category- completing passes to guys who are covered well. 
We will see how he does Saturday, but the only stat I will care about is can he win. Nobody has been better at that stat than him. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #38 on: October 24, 2017, 08:40:02 PM »
Quote from: Roaddawg on October 24, 2017, 08:30:21 PM
Exactly and from a 5th year guy, who has played in several huge games against several different defenses, he should be able to see that and does not seem to be able to adjust. Would you not agree that a guy with is experience and stats, should be able to make those adjustments?  
No. His Offensive coaches never had to deal with that issue consistently, and did virtually nothing effective to adjust, until they hired Wilson. 
You all forget, defenses have caught up with the zone read. It's not like his freshman year where that was unstoppable and he only needed to pass 10-12 times a game.
It wasn't until Late last season that teams started this tactic.  
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Roaddawg

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #39 on: October 24, 2017, 08:44:47 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 24, 2017, 08:40:02 PM
No. His Offensive coaches never had to deal with that issue consistently, and did virtually nothing effective to adjust, until they hired Wilson.
You all forget, defenses have caught up with the zone read. It's not like his freshman year where that was unstoppable and he only needed to pass 10-12 times a game.
It wasn't until Late last season that teams started this tactic.  
No, I think everyone is well aware that defensive units have rapidly caught up to the zone read, I think that is why a lot of folks have been on Urban the last few years to mix things up-which he does at times, but seems to fall back to his zone read stubbornness.  Last season, I will give you the coaching, this season-the ONLY coach I blame is the head coach. 
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Honestbuckeye

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #40 on: October 24, 2017, 08:47:06 PM »
Quote from: Roaddawg on October 24, 2017, 08:44:47 PM
No, I think everyone is well aware that defensive units have rapidly caught up to the zone read, I think that is why a lot of folks have been on Urban the last few years to mix things up-which he does at times, but seems to fall back to his zone read stubbornness.  Last season, I will give you the coaching, this season-the ONLY coach I blame is the head coach.  
I am confused at what your blaming him for? For having the leading offense in the Big? 
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MrNubbz

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Re: #2 Penn State (4-0, 7-0) at #6 Ohio State (4-0, 6-1) Game Week
« Reply #41 on: October 24, 2017, 08:50:22 PM »
Quote from: Honestbuckeye on October 24, 2017, 08:12:18 PM
Yeah, let's turn over to a guy that was great in HS.  

Barrett is far from perfect, but he has won way more big games then he has lost, leads the conference in QBR, TDs, least interceptions, yards per pass, and is 2nd in total yards.  
But I will take your word for it, as opposed to Meyer's and Wilsons.    LOL.
We don't know he's Wilson's pick he's playing who he's told.Last year was not High School Burrow went 22-28 vs the same cup cakes Barrett fattened his stats against.Actually leading receivers and throwing into tight windows and stretching the field.That opens things up keeping a defense honest.Cardale Jones never sniffed a snap until Urban ran out of options.How did that work out ?
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