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Topic: #14 Michigan (2-0, 4-1) at Northwestern (1-1, 1-3) Post Game

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Temp430

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #28 on: September 29, 2018, 08:29:54 PM »
Michigan’s D pulled their rear out of the fire.   Kuddos to Michigan’s play callers in the 2nd half.  Calling a Higdon draw on 1st down 5 or 6 times in a row for a maximum gain of 1 yard was spectacular and quite memorable.

Coming back on the road from being down 17 is probably a good learning experience.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 08:44:48 PM by Temp430 »
A decade of Victory over Penn State.

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #29 on: September 29, 2018, 10:21:42 PM »
The most memorable plays for me on offense are positive. No doubt that side languished a long time -- almost all the first half and scattered part of the second.
But those quads plays ... motioning Mason from the diamond toward the formation (first for a TD carry and second for a fake and key block on a Shea conversion) were smart and won the game.
Well, I mean, clearly the D "won the game" except actually they just made winning probable. It really was those two plays that were smart and brought it home.
« Last Edit: September 29, 2018, 10:24:18 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #30 on: September 29, 2018, 10:57:38 PM »
really pathetic performance by that offense and those offensive coaches. Shea Patterson and that defense flat out saved their asses.

Some quick thoughts: Chase Winovich is the best player on that defense. Joshua Uche needs to move to DE. Put about 15 lbs on him and that's a future draft NFL draft pick at DE. He is explosive. Ditto Kwitty Paye. Both of these guys need more reps. Aidan Hutchinson needs more playing time as well. Rashan Gary needs to move inside. They need to get those 3 young guys more reps at DE. All 3 have been getting more pressure on the QB than Gary. I know Gary is battling through an injury, so maybe it's time to sit him for a couple weeks and let him heal. When he's healed up...move him inside to DT. That's the weak spot of that DL right now. DE is the strength. They've got 4 DE's who are flashing at a high level right now in Winovich, Paye, Hutchinson, and Uche. Move him inside, let him wreck shit inside, shore up that middle and get the other DE's more reps.

Other defensive thoughts: Josh Ross needs to be starting at LB'er over Devin Gil. David Long and LaVert Hill are having slumps. They were a lot better last year. If they were thinking of leaving early for NFL- they might want to think again. Brandon Watson has been the best CB by far this year. Oh and Josh Mettelus needs to be benched for Brad Hawkins. Immediately. Hawkins is just a better athlete and football player.

Offense is just a mess. Don't even know where to begin. Shea Patterson saved the day. He is ridiculously good. This would be the same team as last year without him. Sean McKeon continues to be horrible. Nick Eubanks needs to play over him. Period. Zach Gentry is awesome. They need to get the WR's more involved. Where are the fades or jump balls to their big WR's like Nico Collins and DPJ? Offense just sucks period.

SuperMario

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #31 on: September 30, 2018, 10:11:11 AM »
Michigan’s D pulled their rear out of the fire.   Kuddos to Michigan’s play callers in the 2nd half.  Calling a Higdon draw on 1st down 5 or 6 times in a row for a maximum gain of 1 yard was spectacular and quite memorable.

Coming back on the road from being down 17 is probably a good learning experience.
I’m not a big twitter guy, but was sent this last night and thought it was spot on.
<br /><br />

SuperMario

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #32 on: September 30, 2018, 10:14:22 AM »
I miss his unbounded Wildcat fandom and optimism.
Thought about him a lot this weekend. There are just people you come across that make you feel better about life.
His positive outlook never came across as homerism or arrogance, just an optimistic soul that loved his Wildcats. 

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #33 on: September 30, 2018, 03:11:13 PM »
Some quick thoughts: Chase Winovich is the best player on that defense. Joshua Uche needs to move to DE. Put about 15 lbs on him and that's a future draft NFL draft pick at DE. He is explosive. Ditto Kwitty Paye. Both of these guys need more reps. Aidan Hutchinson needs more playing time as well. Rashan Gary needs to move inside. They need to get those 3 young guys more reps at DE. All 3 have been getting more pressure on the QB than Gary. I know Gary is battling through an injury, so maybe it's time to sit him for a couple weeks and let him heal.
I think that undervalues Gary's game and production. He reminds me of Will Ghoston. With the main goal of being elite at holding the edge versus the run.
Teams almost always run away from him. That means they are deliberately choosing to run at Winovich instead (somewhat accentuating Winovich's TFLs). Think about that and watch again. It's true. And on its own says a lot of somethin about somethin for what Gary is accomplishing despite some fans' hand wringing.
No doubt Gary's pass rush isn't as rampant as Winovich's. But Winovich is one of the nation's top few in that regard. And when Gary actually uses his speed-to-power, it's reminiscent of (or better than) Chris Wormley. These are all compliments.
Counting stats aren't everything in football.
On the other hand, I would like to see Gary work on adding more hand moves to his repertoire.
When he's healed up...move him inside to DT. That's the weak spot of that DL right now. DE is the strength. They've got 4 DE's who are flashing at a high level right now in Winovich, Paye, Hutchinson, and Uche. Move him inside, let him wreck shit inside, shore up that middle and get the other DE's more reps.
Depending on whether he can make that transition midseason (without an offseason of prep), I agree and would like to see this too. But not because Gary's been a disappointment to me. Just because the depth outside is really blossoming now, and the inside, though improving, could afford an extra bullet in the chamber. Not on every down. Just on passing downs.
Other defensive thoughts: Josh Ross needs to be starting at LB'er over Devin Gil.
He already has a starter's snap numbers. The ratio has gone from 50-50 to 66-33 and is only further incrementing toward Ross.
David Long and LaVert Hill are having slumps. They were a lot better last year. If they were thinking of leaving early for NFL- they might want to think again.
Painfully true. I'm not sure what's with them. The surrounding defense isn't putting more strain on them. They are suddenly less sticky than they were. Granted, near perfection is hard to follow up, but they've been consistently less than they were. To be clear, we're talking about two A++ guys become A- guys. But still.
On the other hand, what a luxury, to have a defense where the disappointments are like that.
Brandon Watson has been the best CB by far this year.
Amazing, isn't it? All hail Zordich.
Oh and Josh Mettelus needs to be benched for Brad Hawkins. Immediately. Hawkins is just a better athlete and football player.
You say this a lot. Hawkins has a bright future, but you're really underrating Metellus (as if calling a B+/A- guy a C). At safety, the concern isn't Metellus anyway. It's Kinnel. His tackling is the most inconsistent on the team.
Offense is just a mess. Don't even know where to begin. Shea Patterson saved the day. He is ridiculously good. This would be the same team as last year without him. Sean McKeon continues to be horrible. Nick Eubanks needs to play over him. Period. Zach Gentry is awesome. They need to get the WR's more involved. Where are the fades or jump balls to their big WR's like Nico Collins and DPJ? Offense just sucks period.
Lots to improve but they have the time and film to do it. This week, I thought the issue was largely a matter of scheme. BAB may jump in and say that's a common fan bugaboo/fallacy, and I'm open to that, but the drive ending with Higdon's first TD hailed an entirely different offensive strategy and it worked immediately.
On the other hand, the OL is definitely getting better each week. I think Warriner could really be the guy and may already be seeing gains. Needs to keep proving itself, but if true, the past is not the future and the playcalling will naturally change, so I vote to relax here too.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:35:47 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #34 on: September 30, 2018, 05:31:15 PM »
Michigan is #1 in the country in total defense again (233 yards/game).
v-Pass: 146.2/game (1st), 5.1/attempt (4th)
v-Run: 86.4/game (7th), 2.4/rush (4th)

Admission: It's too early in the season to really care. These numbers *may* be impressive in an opponent-invariant way, but aside from ND, Michigan hasn't really played anyone, and a lot can change over the next 7 games.

With context, though, it is impressive how the program transitioned away from the nightmareish RR era, improved to respectability on D with Mattison and Hoke, and since 2015 has just held at this top level as the new normal.

There was a graphic posted early in the game yesterday that (across several metrics I can't recall to repeat, though I know this was one of them), Michigan has been the nation's best defense overall since 2015. Obviously, Michigan had Durkin in 2015 and Don Brown since. 

And then Brown has been great over this period both with and without Michigan. Top 5 last year and #1 in 2015 (with BC) and 2016. I hope he coaches until he's 100 and lives to be 150.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:50:54 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #35 on: September 30, 2018, 05:39:28 PM »
Note: I'm not advocating for counting stats, by the way. I prefer the advanced and efficiency metrics. (Like S&P+, where Michigan is not 1st but 4th, nationally. Defensive FEI is useful, too, though that doesn't aggregate enough data to get published until after Week 7)
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 05:51:51 PM by Anonymous Coward »

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #36 on: September 30, 2018, 10:28:54 PM »
for as good as Brown's defenses have been statically- they've seemed to really lack turnovers. Doesn't make sense. As disruptive as his front 7's routinely are- should translate into way more turnovers.

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #37 on: September 30, 2018, 10:34:49 PM »
Gary is over-hyped by Michigan fans and national media. I understand he's been injured, but he hasn't put the kind of heat on the QB this year that he did in the 2nd half of last year. The other DE's have flat out been better at pressuring the QB this year. Against the same competition.

Like I said, I know he's injured. Which obviously contributes to that. They should sit him next week vs Maryland and then move him inside the week after against Wisconsin.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #38 on: September 30, 2018, 10:56:07 PM »
That's what Michigan fans used to say about Will Ghoston, too. But MSU fans knew that just because a guy isn't piling up counting stats, doesn't mean he isn't dominating his assignment. Gary's holding the edge enough that no one is testing him. They are testing Winovich again and again, instead. Even when he blows them up too, offenses keep running at Winovich.
The Michigan fans unhappy with Gary aren't smarter than those coaches. Gary's ascension is just fine. Well, except for that shoulder. I'm worried about that shoulder.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #39 on: September 30, 2018, 10:57:45 PM »
for as good as Brown's defenses have been statically- they've seemed to really lack turnovers. Doesn't make sense. As disruptive as his front 7's routinely are- should translate into way more turnovers.
Very true. But, to some extent, turnovers are random. Even when a fumble is forced, it isn't a turnover unless it bounces the right way.
It is maddening though how little "returning to the mean" there has been for Michigan in this category since the Carr years. How many times in that period has Michigan had a positive TO margin? 
Off the top of my head, only 2011 was noteworthy in that regard.

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #40 on: September 30, 2018, 11:10:38 PM »
That's what Michigan fans used to say about Will Ghoston, too. But MSU fans knew that just because a guy isn't piling up counting stats, doesn't mean he isn't dominating his assignment. Gary's holding the edge enough that no one is testing him. They are testing Winovich again and again, instead. Even when he blows them up too, offenses keep running at Winovich.
The Michigan fans unhappy with Gary aren't smarter than those coaches. Gary's ascension is just fine. Well, except for that shoulder. I'm worried about that shoulder.
Will Gholston was never the unanimous #1 recruit in the entire nation wire to wire since basically his sophomore year like Gary. Gary was #1 on those way too early rankings and he stayed #1 all the way throughout. Gholston was never hyped as a Top 5 NFL draft pick either.
This discussion has nothing to do with Gary holding the edge. It's about his lack of pass rush. He is not putting the same kind of heat on the QB as he was in the 2nd half of last season. Obviously his injury has something to do with that. Right now there are 4 other DE's getting more pass rush pressure than he is.
He'd be well served with a week off to heal up and then they really should move him inside. They have DE's who can get after it. DT has been the weakness of that defense. Mike Dwumfour finally showed up after all that hype, that was nice to see. Dwumfour was a terror inside. Mone's conditioning is an issue- he's approaching Gabe Watson territory- he's only good for a handful of plays a game bc he's just too fat. And Marshall and Kemp are solid rotational guys inside. Not guys that should be starting imo. Plugging Gary inside would give that interior a huge shot in the arm and get guys on the edge on the field who have been rushing the passer better than Gary.
« Last Edit: September 30, 2018, 11:12:28 PM by Mdot21 »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (1-0, 3-1) at Northwestern (1-0, 1-2) Game Week
« Reply #41 on: September 30, 2018, 11:59:55 PM »
No, he wasn't #1 overall, and I get how that's different. Still, Ghoston was a hype monster of his own.
I agree that Gary's pass rush isn't otherworldly. I'm just not sure I need to care. Because his run defense very well may be the ebst of any DE in the conference. And his pass rush is routinely a quarter-second behind the guy who actually gets the sack. So it's not nothing. It's just not all-world. 
Michigan isn't suffering for pass rush. The defense isn't suffering at all. Gary is a big part of that. If he's never more, he's plenty awesome. Enjoy him while he's here.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2018, 12:01:56 AM by Anonymous Coward »

 

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