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Topic: #14 Michigan (0-1) at #12 Notre Dame (1-0) Post Game

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Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #56 on: August 29, 2018, 07:40:51 PM »
I don't think Michigan has suffered for bad people at QB since 2007. Though Tate Forcier did behave immaturely and maybe John O'Korn, too. In all, they've been likeable. The outcomes seem to just be about (1) talent and (2) coaching.
Denard had both until Hoke arrived but after Hoke brough Borges, Denard still had so much of #1 to keep Hoke afloat for at least one thoroughly enjoyable season. Devin had the most of #1 that Michigan has seen since Mallett or Henne ... but Hoke was there and Hoke chose OCs so poorly.
Then with Harbaugh there were Rudock and Speight, who only had enough of #2, but plenty of that to significantly overachieve preseason expectations. For Speight, how many of us have heard the anecdote that *zero* quarterbacks Al Borges ever recruited have finished their college career as a starter? Now we're to an era with both #1 and #2. Everyone expects that Peters and McCaffery have both, and they are finally coming of age. 
Meanwhile - to fully tip the balances on a culture of violations against himself - Hugh Freeze called escorts with an FOIA-able phone, the karmic revolution was on, and Shea became available. Giving Michigan a guy with #1 and #2 who was even readier. Fortunately for the long term, Peters and McCaffery have more than enough eligibility to wait it out.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #57 on: August 29, 2018, 10:11:31 PM »
Probably a little of both.  But as you said, it's easier to pin it all on him.  The simplest answer is easier than the right one.  
That's why I'm worried.
Warriner is an upgrade over just about anyone.  So even if it wasn't all him, I still expect Warriner to be better.
And that's why I'm not. Though I'm not sure how much it can matter in 7.5 months.

FearlessF

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #58 on: August 29, 2018, 10:48:21 PM »
much talk, speculation and such

bottom line, this is year #4 for Harbaugh

is another transfer the break out QB or are the fans expected to wait until year 5?

yes, I'll agree it takes time to develop a freshman QB.  Which QB recruit is going to be that guy?  Because the transfer looks to be the guy this season.

Hopefully it doesn't take Frost's staff 4 or 5 years to develop their true frosh recruit, that they nabbed from the Vols after the conference champ game.  And I really mean that, I'm not sold that this kid starting as a true frosh is the GUY.
"Courage; Generosity; Fairness; Honor; In these are the true awards of manly sport."

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #59 on: August 29, 2018, 11:04:18 PM »
much talk, speculation and such

bottom line, this is year #4 for Harbaugh

is another transfer the break out QB or are the fans expected to wait until year 5?

yes, I'll agree it takes time to develop a freshman QB.  Which QB recruit is going to be that guy?  Because the transfer looks to be the guy this season.

Hopefully it doesn't take Frost's staff 4 or 5 years to develop their true frosh recruit, that they nabbed from the Vols after the conference champ game.  And I really mean that, I'm not sold that this kid starting as a true frosh is the GUY.
It should rarely take more than two full years to develop a true frosh into a guy you can win with, if necessary. So for a new coach, it's a great luxury to get a good one in your first class (technically your zeroth class, since its mostly built by your predecessor). I think Scott has that fortune.
For Harbaugh, there was no such luxury, but Michigan fans have a lot of confidence in his first two recruits (from the 2016 and 2017 classes) - Peters and McCaffery. The following doesn't reflect negatively on either: Shea is just readier, is all. That Patterson and Peters are from the same recruiting class but Peters was originally more of a project, there's nothing to read between the lines or reason to worry. If Shea were to go down, we'd feel better about either of his next two replacements than we have since ... Denard/Devin? Denard/Tate? Henne/Guttierez?
And after this year, Peters and McCaffery will still have two and three years remaining. It's a healthier QB room than most in the Big Ten.
« Last Edit: August 29, 2018, 11:06:32 PM by Anonymous Coward »

FearlessF

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #60 on: August 29, 2018, 11:28:21 PM »
I understand this.  I also understand that fans need to be patient.

Mike Riley got 3 seasons.  Many coaches don't get 4 or 5.
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Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #61 on: August 30, 2018, 01:46:05 AM »
The Hoke and RR eras knocked the Michigan out of Michigan fans. 

It could take Harbaugh a decade to hit 11 wins and so long as he bobs about 9.5 per season, he's not going anywhere. There's no other HC worth the risk of firing him to chase and see. And every indication is Harbaugh will pick to be in Ann Arbor until he retires. 

The original "most demanding fanbase in America" only has patience these days. If it weren't CFB, it'd be zen.

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #62 on: August 30, 2018, 02:02:55 AM »
much talk, speculation and such

bottom line, this is year #4 for Harbaugh

is another transfer the break out QB or are the fans expected to wait until year 5?

yes, I'll agree it takes time to develop a freshman QB.  Which QB recruit is going to be that guy?  Because the transfer looks to be the guy this season.

Hopefully it doesn't take Frost's staff 4 or 5 years to develop their true frosh recruit, that they nabbed from the Vols after the conference champ game.  And I really mean that, I'm not sold that this kid starting as a true frosh is the GUY.
Shea Patterson was a 5*, the #1 ranked QB overall and #4 player overall in the 247Composite rankings in the class of 2016.
Brandon Peters was a 4*, the #6 ranked Pro-Style QB and the #61 player overall in the 247Composite rankings in the class of 2016.
Dylan McCaffrey was a 4*, the #5 ranked Pro-Style QB and the #123 player overall in the 247Composite class of 2017 rankings.
Joe Milton was a 4*, the #9 ranked Pro-Style QB and the #204 player overall in the 247Composite class of 2018 rankings.
If he can't find a real life QB out of that collection of talent- he should just quit.
Patterson was the best, most accomplished HS player of the 4. Also the shortest, but also the most technically advanced, most polished, and ready to play coming out of high school. Hence the high ranking he got coming out.
Peters probably had the best mix of talents coming out of those 4 but not the best at any one thing. I'm still a big Peters fan despite that poor bowl game showing and Patterson transferring in and winning the QB job.
McCaffrey probably the best all-around athlete of the four- had the height but he came in weighing like 190 at 6'5. If he can put on the weight and keep it on- he's got pretty much every thing else.
Joe Milton is a flat out project- his ranking is entirely based on potential. Honestly he probably should've been rated a 3*- but he has the best size and by far the strongest arm of that group. He probably had the strongest arm out of any QB recruit in the 2018 class. He showed up to Ann Arbor 6'5, 234 pounds. He runs a legit 4.6 at that size and oh yeah- he can also throw a football 90 yards in the air and right through a brick wall. He's huge, he can run, and he's got a massive arm. Didn't have the greatest HS completion stats though. Might be shades of Shane Morris here. He's very boom or bust. He'll either be the #1 pick in the draft or ride the bench and/or transfer.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2018, 02:17:01 AM by Mdot21 »

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #63 on: August 30, 2018, 03:01:58 AM »
Peters didn't look good in the bowl, but that was primarily based on externalities - the OL mostly, RB blitz pick ups, too. Dropped passes. Awfulness all around. He gets some blame, I'm sure. But I didn't know specifically what. 

Temp430

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #64 on: August 30, 2018, 06:49:31 AM »
I expect Michigan's defense to be dominate and the offense to be a work in progress.  The OL will be better but they'll have a long way to go to be considered good.  Patterson is very talented but its the first game of the season and his first at Michigan.  Notre Dame's defense is solid so my thinking is Michigan's offense will struggle but score.  I expect the Irish offense to struggle more.
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Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #65 on: August 30, 2018, 10:51:23 AM »
I expect Michigan's defense to be dominate and the offense to be a work in progress.  The OL will be better but they'll have a long way to go to be considered good.  Patterson is very talented but its the first game of the season and his first at Michigan.  Notre Dame's defense is solid so my thinking is Michigan's offense will struggle but score.  I expect the Irish offense to struggle more.
That interior OL should be pretty solid. Bredeson, Ruiz, and Big Mike Onwenu. Those are some big fellas. Stephen Spannellis has had a great spring and fall, really pushed Ruiz and Onwenu and will be the back up at both spots. 
No question though the tackles are a major concern. JBB was terrible at pass blocking but a mauler in the run game. Jon Runyon Jr isn’t the 6’5 he’s listed at- more like a shade under 6’4. Every other tackle on the roster is a RS Freshman or true freshman. 

ELA

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #66 on: August 30, 2018, 03:50:01 PM »
Notre Dame confirmed that the injury yesterday in practice to starting CB Shaun Crawford was a torn ACL

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #67 on: August 30, 2018, 04:25:47 PM »
Notre Dame confirmed that the injury yesterday in practice to starting CB Shaun Crawford was a torn ACL
That poor kid. Some might remember him as a Hoke commit before that whole thing fell to hell. Like with Tarik, this is a recurrence. The emotional pain for a football player, so valuing their body but watching it fail anyway has to be the worst pain of all.
And now to step into tacky lizard brain Anonymous Coward mode: he's their starting nickel. The supposed gap between Crawford and (next NB) seems large. That increments the odds that Grant, Oliver or Gentry opportunistically feast. Assuming things about the back-up, Shea and play calling of corse.

Anonymous Coward

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #68 on: August 30, 2018, 04:31:00 PM »
That interior OL should be pretty solid. Bredeson, Ruiz, and Big Mike Onwenu. Those are some big fellas. Stephen Spannellis has had a great spring and fall, really pushed Ruiz and Onwenu and will be the back up at both spots.
No question though the tackles are a major concern. JBB was terrible at pass blocking but a mauler in the run game. Jon Runyon Jr isn’t the 6’5 he’s listed at- more like a shade under 6’4. Every other tackle on the roster is a RS Freshman or true freshman.
Agreed, Cesar Ruiz might have been the nation's best HS Center prospect (admittedly there aren't many pure ones) in 15 years. And even as a TrFr, he was a hit. Plus Bredeson and Onwenu really mauled as run blockers last year. If Warriner can ONLY fix the issue with pass blocking on stunts (or even just reduce those failures in half), then this will compete for the second or third best interior line in the Big Ten. The problem is the tackles. Can they even be sixth best? If they can, then Michigan can be a pretty thorny team.

Mdot21

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Re: #14 Michigan (0-0) at #12 Notre Dame (0-0) Game Week
« Reply #69 on: August 30, 2018, 06:42:50 PM »
And now to step into tacky lizard brain Anonymous Coward mode: he's their starting nickel. The supposed gap between Crawford and (next NB) seems large. That increments the odds that Grant, Oliver or Gentry opportunistically feast. Assuming things about the back-up, Shea and play calling of corse.
could really open things up for Chris Evans in the passing game or Grant Perry or Oliver Martin in the slot to really do damage.

 

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