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Topic: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?

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gymvol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #42 on: April 10, 2021, 08:30:00 PM »
You can report whatever you want, you seem to like doing it.  The JW religion appears to align with what gymvol posts here pretty closely.  You asked his denomination, so you appear to care about it.

It's information. 


I'm not a Jehovah's Witness
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

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Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #43 on: April 10, 2021, 09:14:35 PM »
Well, well, well!

Got us a little donneybrook going, I see.  A little dustup.

Beats droning on endlessly about nothing, I guess.

Which brings us to Cincy.  I agree with you, pal.  I figure Gym is either JW or SDA.  Both are non-trinitarian heresies.  Which would explain why he slanders orthodox (small “o”) Christianity as “perverse.”  There can be no reasonable or productive discussions with such people.

I hope I’m wrong, and he’s just a particularly crusty and unpleasant CoC, whose gone down a lot of rabbit holes, and refuses to celebrate Christmas and Easter because it makes him feel exclusive and superior, poor fellow.

He brings to mind Romans 14, in which Paul speaks of the “liberty” we have in Christ.  And advises:  “Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things” (v. 1).  And I’m going to follow that advice with Gym.

I also agree that Buddhism would suit you.  They don’t really believe in anything, either.  They just build a religion around believing in nothing.  

Let’s move on to fuzz… 

nah.  Never mind.  Too simple, too foolish, too  unserious, and too ignorant to even waste time on.

And now Gym:


Quote
Why study it if you aren't smart enough to even know who did the revealing? You certainly aren't smart enough to understand the meaning of what was revealed if you don't know John was only a messenger and not the Revelator.

So Dan no wonder you stay confused on what is or is not pagan or the perverted version of Christianity and not the truth. You keep referring to and posting the error about the book of Revelations or Apocalypse which is Greek for revealing or uncovering as the Revelation of St. John.

The fifth chapter explains who true the Revelator is or the one who does the revealing which is none other than Jesus himself.


What a winsome, winning demeanor you have there, son!

I can’t imagine anyone reading the sunshine that flows from your keyboard and not saying “whatever Gym has — I want it!  Sign me up!”

If you want to get technical about it, it is God who does the revealing:

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.” — Rev. 1:1,2

It is the revelation — singular — the “unveiling” OF Jesus Christ.  He is revealed, in all His eternal power and glory, the Lord of all Creation — not the suffering servant He manifested as in His incarnation.

John is given this “revelation” of Christ by an angel sent by Him.  Twice — if memory serves — John falls at the feet of the angel, and attempts to worship him.  And is corrected for it — “don’t worship me!  Worship HIM!”  Or words to that effect.

Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to those that read it.

It is also the only book that provides its own outline.  John is instructed by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself to write down “the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.”

Which, in order, are:  our revealed, “unveiled” Lord; the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches (which have a simultaneous local, admonitory, homiletic, and prophetic applications); and the various seal and bowl and trumpet judgments.  Which we are so near to, if you listen closely, you can almost hear the tinkling of the silverware and wine glasses being set for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.   ( ^ ;

Chuck Missler — who Sunny Gym undoubtedly disrespects and dislikes, because he teaches truth, not belligerent backwoods legalism — opines that Revelation may be the best book to initiate a comprehensive Bible study with.  Because by the time you chase down all the symbolism and Old Testament references, you will end with a solid understanding of the whole Biblical “package.”

Lastly, Dan — my brother, you must  sometimes feel like you’re teaching advanced calculus, or quantum physics, to a Special Ed class…. (LOL)

   



Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #44 on: April 11, 2021, 09:22:11 AM »

I'm not a Jehovah's Witness
My comment was your belief set appears to align with that of JWs pretty well, but thanks for the clarification.  I won't guess any more.

I used to be Southern Baptist, though I attended a Church of the Nazarene after moving to Cincy for a while.  They had the best preacher I've ever heard and then he left.


gymvol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #45 on: April 11, 2021, 10:50:58 AM »
Well, well, well!

Got us a little donneybrook going, I see.  A little dustup.

Beats droning on endlessly about nothing, I guess.

Which brings us to Cincy.  I agree with you, pal.  I figure Gym is either JW or SDA.  Both are non-trinitarian heresies.  Which would explain why he slanders orthodox (small “o”) Christianity as “perverse.”  There can be no reasonable or productive discussions with such people.

I hope I’m wrong, and he’s just a particularly crusty and unpleasant CoC, whose gone down a lot of rabbit holes, and refuses to celebrate Christmas and Easter because it makes him feel exclusive and superior, poor fellow.

He brings to mind Romans 14, in which Paul speaks of the “liberty” we have in Christ.  And advises:  “Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things” (v. 1).  And I’m going to follow that advice with Gym.

I also agree that Buddhism would suit you.  They don’t really believe in anything, either.  They just build a religion around believing in nothing. 

Let’s move on to fuzz…

nah.  Never mind.  Too simple, too foolish, too  unserious, and too ignorant to even waste time on.

And now Gym:



What a winsome, winning demeanor you have there, son!

I can’t imagine anyone reading the sunshine that flows from your keyboard and not saying “whatever Gym has — I want it!  Sign me up!”

If you want to get technical about it, it is God who does the revealing:

“The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him to show His servants—things which must shortly take place. And He sent and signified it by His angel to His servant John, 2 who bore witness to the word of God, and to the testimony of Jesus Christ, to all things that he saw.” — Rev. 1:1,2

It is the revelation — singular — the “unveiling” OF Jesus Christ.  He is revealed, in all His eternal power and glory, the Lord of all Creation — not the suffering servant He manifested as in His incarnation.

John is given this “revelation” of Christ by an angel sent by Him.  Twice — if memory serves — John falls at the feet of the angel, and attempts to worship him.  And is corrected for it — “don’t worship me!  Worship HIM!”  Or words to that effect.

Revelation is the only book in the Bible that promises a blessing to those that read it.

It is also the only book that provides its own outline.  John is instructed by our Lord Jesus Christ Himself to write down “the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after this.”

Which, in order, are:  our revealed, “unveiled” Lord; the Seven Letters to the Seven Churches (which have a simultaneous local, admonitory, homiletic, and prophetic applications); and the various seal and bowl and trumpet judgments.  Which we are so near to, if you listen closely, you can almost hear the tinkling of the silverware and wine glasses being set for the Marriage Supper of the Lamb.  ( ^ ;

Chuck Missler — who Sunny Gym undoubtedly disrespects and dislikes, because he teaches truth, not belligerent backwoods legalism — opines that Revelation may be the best book to initiate a comprehensive Bible study with.  Because by the time you chase down all the symbolism and Old Testament references, you will end with a solid understanding of the whole Biblical “package.”

Lastly, Dan — my brother, you must  sometimes feel like you’re teaching advanced calculus, or quantum physics, to a Special Ed class…. (LOL)

 





I would really like to know what you are and Christian it is not. You can quote all the scripture you want, post from what you think is from knowledgeable men about the bible and act holier than thou but you're nothing more than a Sunday Go to Meetin Christian. I've seen them all my life and all of you act the same. You criticize, name call and belittle others acting like you're better that they are when you're nothing more than a holier than thou hypocrite.


You may think you talk the talk but you certainly don't walk the walk. I had a Christian upbringing I've also attended various denominations of churches throughout my life but I don't claim to be a Christian same as you.  But I do know the bible and have studied both the false and true version of  Christianity so I don't have to rely on some other man to form my opinion of what the truth is.

I also don't celebrate pagan festivals as Gods holy days nor do I break the 4th commandment of keeping a Sunday sabbath.

Exodus 20

8Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

No one I know who are true Christians acts as you or Dan do engaging in the name calling, insulting others trying to belittle them in order to silence them simply because they disagree and don't believe as you think they should.

I have more respect for Fuzzy and Cincy. I may not agree with them on many things but at least I know what they are they don't pretend to be something they're not.
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #46 on: April 11, 2021, 11:51:13 AM »
Who says I have to belong to one of your so called perverted Christian denominations from the mother church of all harlots?
    It is extremely telling that you have some issues that are brought about by an extreme lack of knowledge in many areas. It is also extremely telling that you want to judge others by their denominations when you are lacking any knowledge of them. It is extremely telling that you will not even tell others what your denomination (if you even have one) is and one has to wonder what you are trying to hide.  It is extremely telling you have no knowledge of Church history or even that of a simple timeline. It is also extremely telling you have no concept of many things you need to know to have a intelligent discussion about some things in the Bible examples include but not limited to some of the problems with the English translation in the words chosen such as what the Hebrews considered a day at the time, customs of the times, the history of the time, how some verses (Which is a modern invention) fits in with the surrounding text/ how they fir in with the bigger picture/etc., how when you instruct people or correct them that you should be very aware that you are using what is Biblically correct, how you use out of context Biblical references to lash out at others -such as someone who use to use a prophecy about a coming war to justify murder via abortion, etc., etc. IT is extremely telling you have no knowkedge if who ir why the books of the Bibke were chosen and others were rejected as false. It is extremely telling that you want to condemn others for a splinter in their eye while ignoring your own. It is extremely telling that all you want to do is bicker and cause strife like Cincy and some of his band of disruptors that he has encouraged -funny for  two who went at each others throats so much now you are almost like buds. It is extremely telling that you have used colorful and hateful language responding to those who ruffled you feathers and whine so about what is mild in comparison response to you.

It is sad as I know you are not a unintelligent person, but you do not apply it and employee raw emotions that are fueled by much of the above. It is sad that you can not read and think about what is posted but instead react to the point one has to wonder who is throwing salt into you wounds behind the scenes or are you really just performing rectal acrobatics.

You are free to believe whatever you wish, but when you are wrong don’t be surprised when people  tell you so and offer some of why you are wrong, instead of imitating you and its By Satan it is because I said so. You are free to not like my lengthy post but if you don’t read them as you so claim then to judge their content is nothing short of hypocrisy. I will add if you have your own board you are free there to set your own rules, if you want me to post to suit you here you can pay me my prevailing contractor Sunday rate of pay, that seems fair to me otherwise your complaint is just cast aside.

Let me close with have a nice day as there is no need for me, at this point in time to waste any more time on you.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 07:03:58 PM by DunkingDan »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #47 on: April 11, 2021, 03:43:48 PM »
What Dan said.  100%.

I’m trying to resist an unholy temptation to see if I can piss Sunny Gym off a little more, just for fun.  Get thee behind me, Satan!  ( ^ ;

Instead, I’ll follow Dan’s advice, and not waste any more time on the strong opinions of a very confused… Christian?


Quote
No one I know who are true Christians acts as you or Dan do engaging in the name calling, insulting others trying to belittle them in order to silence them simply because they disagree and don't believe as you think they should.


Well, you’re certainly setting a fine example.  Hypocritical there much, Gymbo?


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…I don't claim to be a Christian…


A good policy for you.  I heartily endorse it.


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I also don't celebrate pagan festivals as Gods holy days…


If you think that is an expression of virtue, you are sadly misguided.  Which is self-evident. 

Think about it, Gym mah boy. 

Do you really think God is displeased by the celebration of His Son’s birth, God’s incarnation, the greatest Gift every given, by the symbolism of light during the darkest time of year (northern hemisphere), and festive feasting and gift giving?

Why do you suppose that would be upsetting to Him?  Because certain pagan rituals were co-opted, and made to conform to His glory?  You can’t see that as a GOOD thing?  Is your God a cosmic spoilsport, He just doesn’t want to see anyone have a good time?  Are you trying to conform to the image of your distorted view of Him?

And aren’t you throwing the baby out with the bath water over Easter/Resurrection Sunday?  Are you so bitter over chocolate bunnies and Easter egg hunts, that you’re completely missing the joy we are to share over His rising from the dead?  His triumph over sin and death?  And what that entails as far as our eternal destiny? 


Quote
nor do I break the 4th commandment of keeping a Sunday sabbath.

Gymmie, gymmie, gymmie, gymmie, gymmie…. (smh).

Where are you getting this crap?  Please — reassess whatever heretical BS you’ve been giving credence to.  You really are just way off on a number of points.  I hope you’re not missing the mark on the main point.  But I have my concerns…

There is no “Sunday Sabbath”.  The Sabbath was instituted among the Jews at Sinai, as part of the Law God imparted to them to consecrate and sanctify (separate) them.

Jesus fulfilled that Law.  So we don’t have to.  Christians worship on Sunday in commemoration of the day that He rose from the dead.

In fact, if you WANTED to keep the Law, you couldn’t.  Even Jews can’t.  They don’t have a Temple to institute the ritual sacrifices in.

Loosen up, man.  We are not obligated to keep the Mosaic Law.  In fact, Christ died to FREE us from the Law.  We are not tied to the Sabbath, circumcism, or anything else.  Please read Galatians.  The Christian “Maga Carta” of liberty.  As Paul points out:  if you chose to live by the Law, instead of faith, you are obligated to keep the WHOLE Law:

For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.”

13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursed is everyone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
— Gal. 3:10-14

Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision avails anything, but faith working through love.  — Gal.  3:1-6

And James resonates with Paul’s observations:

If you really fulfill the royal law according to the Scripture, “You shall love your neighbor as yourself,” you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, “Do not commit adultery,” also said, “Do not murder.” Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty. 13 For judgment is without mercy to the one who has shown no mercy. Mercy triumphs over judgment. — James 2:9-13

Paul even asks the Galatians who has “bewitched” them into trying to follow the Law.  And wishes they were “cut off”.

Oh, well.  My hunch is this will just put you into another distorted tailspin.  And I said I wouldn’t waste any more time.  And then proceeded to do so.  Your doctrine is false.  Please abandon it forthwith.  You are denying the total sufficiency of Christ’s sacrificial atonement.  Whether you’re even aware of it or not.

Also — you’re so busy telling Dan and me how awful we are, you’ve completely ignored responding to some repeated points.

For instance:  you say you believe in m2m, that microbes became men over billions of years.  And that there is no evidence for the catastrophic global Flood of Noah.

Yet you’ve never addressed the presence of undulating layers of sedimentary rock.  Or polystrate fossils — e.g., petrified trees transecting multiple layers of rock.  How did those phenomenon occur “slowly and gradually”, by uniformitarian processes?

And how is it that red blood cells and soft tissue are found in “55 million year old” dinosaur bones?

You also remain bashfully coy about which un-doctrinal sect you follow.

Let’s see if you can be a man, and a civil human being, and provide a reasonable and adult response. 

Not holding my breath…



« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 03:59:38 PM by Volbrigade/oU »

Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #48 on: April 11, 2021, 03:51:55 PM »
If we asked say 20 Christian experts on the meaning of Revelation, how many differing perspectives might we find?  Ten?  Fifteen?  Twenty?

If we asked 20 math professors how to differentiate some calculus equation, we'd get the same answer 20 times.

One is about opinion, however well researched and thoughtful and learned, the latter is direct fact.  An expert in Revelation might feel certain he's right, but it's still his opinion, and another would be just as certain he's wrong.


Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #49 on: April 11, 2021, 04:02:25 PM »
So freekin’ typical.
 
You can’t wait 8 friggin’ minutes after a substantive post is submitted, before vomiting your lukewarm nothingness.

What a passive-aggressive little twit you are.



Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #50 on: April 11, 2021, 04:24:34 PM »
I don't bother reading long posts.  I might scan them quickly, at best.  I think to have something read and understood it should be short.

And I don't mind being called names either.  It's an internet forum, differing opinions are welcome, like all the differing opinions on Revelation.

If we were discussing some math problem, there would be one correct answer.


Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #51 on: April 11, 2021, 09:48:06 PM »
LOL.  

I was proofreading my post, minutes after posting it.  Noticed an error I wanted to change.  Couldn’t change it, cause the internet got hung up.  One of the downsides of 4G LTE.  Hoping to get fiber optic out here someday.

Usually resolves in a few minutes.  Checked back — and there is your repetitive nothingness, already covering up my post.  It’s like you just sit there, waiting for a new post to arrive, so you pounce with your 37K + 1… 2… 3… 4… etc…. reiteration of the only thing you ever post.

“Opinions vary.  Some people think one thing, some another.  In the end, it probably doesn’t make any difference…”

I mean, we get it.  Nothing really means anything to you.  Who gives a shit?  What sort of look-at-me narcissism drives someone to say it over and over, 37K plus times?

I mean, I know you can’t understand.  You have no idea what it’s like to spend a few minutes composing a substantive post, only to have it immediately papered over by someone who has nothing to say about a topic, but who insists on saying it anyway.

You don’t know what that’s like, because you’ve never posted anything that has substance.  And refuse to read anything that does.  All you want to do is make idle chatter, expressing your shallow bias.  And reading two-sentence confirmations of those biases.

Whee.

Whatever.  It’s just as well.  There’s no bigger waste of time than message boards, God love ‘em.  If someone reads what I wrote — great.  if not — c’est la vie.  I enjoy setting my thoughts in order.  

“I write to find out what I know.” — Flannery O’Connor

For instance:

your “calculus” analogy.

Allow me to blow it to smithereens.  Oh, wait — this is too long.  You can’t read it.  Nevertheless…

Let me ask you:  where do the laws of calculus exist? Or, for that matter, the laws of gravity, or thermodynamics, or electromagnetism, or morality?

Just a little thought exercise.

So.  Calculus.  A system of mathematics which expresses and manipulates numerical properties established by God when he created time and space.

We can agree on these properties, and on the results that we get from them.  Fine.  Great.  God created an ordered, “knowable” world, that was designed to be discovered.

Compare that to Revelation.  And the rest of God’s written message system to us.  

It is like comparing the knowledge of an aircraft seat, to the sum total of knowledge needed to build a 747.  Like comparing how to make a firecracker, to how to build an atom bomb.

Calculus is relatively easy.  And agreement is readily obtainable.

The Bible is endlessly complex.  Differences in interpretation are rife.  And often deep.

Not only that, but if you’re poor at calculus, or don’t know much (or anything) about it, you’re bound to get the wrong answer.

If you’re poor at Bible scholarship, or don’t know much (or anything) ab0ut it — the same applies.

There is far more agreement on major doctrines, and even prophetic interpretation, among knowledgable, dedicated, believing Christians, than there is disagreement.

     



Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #52 on: April 11, 2021, 09:59:40 PM »
Calculus experts get the same answer every time.  Revelation experts have opinions, and opinions vary.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2021, 10:09:53 PM by Cincydawg »

Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #53 on: April 11, 2021, 10:13:39 PM »
Calculus experts get the same answer every time.  Revelation experts have opinions, and opinions vary.
No calculus expert can calculate the endless shallow banality of the Godless relativist Whateverist.

For that, you need a Bible expert.   ( ^ ;



Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #54 on: April 11, 2021, 10:17:55 PM »
Ever take calculus?  Know how it works?

It is precise and unambiguous.

Thanks to Newton and Liebnitz.

Volbrigade/oU

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #55 on: April 11, 2021, 11:47:19 PM »
Ever write anything interesting?  Thought provoking?  Provocative?

A rhetorical question.

Some people think calculus is precise and unambiguous.  Others disagree.  In the end, I doubt it makes much difference.

Ever thought about just remaining silent, rather than commenting  reflexively and compulsively and endlessly on subjects you know nothing about, and have nothing to contribute?


« Last Edit: April 12, 2021, 12:01:59 AM by Volbrigade/oU »

 

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