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Topic: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?

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DunkingDan

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“THE SEAL OF THE ANTICHRIST” OR “THE SEAL OF GOD”?
« Reply #14 on: March 21, 2021, 03:19:46 PM »


“The Sleep of the Just” panel of the unique fourteenth-century Apocalypse Tapestry, Chateau d’Angers, France.
    
Almost all believers have heard about “the seal of the antichrist”. Many sincerely think that it was mentioned in the Book of the Revelation by St. John the Theologian, but it is not so. You cannot find the word combination “the seal of the antichrist” in the Bible. St. John in the Apocalypse does mention “the mark of the antichrist” (or “the sign of the antichrist”), but it is not the same. Though the terms “the seal” and “the mark” are very similar, they are nevertheless different [here the author is speaking about two Russian words: “pechat” and “nachertanye”; the former in various contexts may mean “a seal”, “a stamp”, while the latter apart from “a seal” may mean “an inscription”, “tracing” etc. In the given context their meaning is indeed very similar].
The Greek word “haragma”, meaning “a seal”, “a mark”, “a sign”, is used in chapter 13 of the Greek version of the Revelation. But there is also another Greek term used in the book – “sphragis”, meaning “a seal”, “an identifying sign or character” (hence: sphragistics—the study of seals and signet rings). But the word “seal” is used in the Bible in relation to God, not the antichrist. So the wording of the last book of the New Testament is the following: “the seal of God” and “the mark of the antichrist”.
All of us have heard about “the seal of the antichrist” many times, albeit it cannot be found in the Bible. Meanwhile, almost nobody talks about “the seal of the Creator” which is mentioned in the Bible. Strange enough, Christians tend to find talks about Christ “boring”, whereas many of them are interested in “horror stories” related to the antichrist and devil… So let us now talk about “the seal of God” in order to counter this odd tendency.
It is mentioned in the following verses of the Book of the Apocalypse:
And I saw another angel ascending from the east, having the seal of the living God: and he cried with a loud voice to the four angels, to whom it was given to hurt the earth and the sea, saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads (Rev. 7:2-3).
Thus, an angel who has the seal of the living God was sent by Him to seal the servants of the Almighty before the antichrist’s persecutions. What does this “sealing” mean?
Seals were widely used in the ancient world. First of all, a seal signified ownership, belonging. For example, cattle and slaves were sealed for the identification of their owners. Merchants would seal their bales with goods and wine growers would seal their wine jugs for the same purpose. Seals served as a form of identification of owners and the quality of products. Taking into account these symbols, who are those sealed by God? These are the servants of the Almighty that in some sense represent their Master.
Royal seals in the ancient world are another particular theme. Eastern rulers had seal rings (also called signet rings) that they used to certify their documents and mark their personal things. When Pharaoh appointed Joseph ruler over Egypt, he took off his ring (a token of his power) and put it on Joseph’s hand (see Gen. 41:42). Similarly, King Artaxerxes took off his ring and gave it into the hands of Haman, and when the latter lost power the signet ring was handed to Mordecai (see Esth. 3:10; 8:2). King Darius sealed the den where Prophet Daniel was thrown with his own signet ring (see Dan. 6:17). After the Crucifixion and Entombment of Christ the chief priests and the Pharisees made the Sepulcher secure by putting a seal on the stone (see Mt. 27:66). Thus we come to the conclusion that sealing of the faithful means their belonging to the Heavenly Father Who protects them and confers upon them spiritual authority (the latter is applicable to clergy as they can “bind and loose”).
In the early Church “the seal” acquired a liturgical meaning. First of all, it was associated with the sacrament of Baptism. Truly Baptism is a kind of “seal of God” indicating that a baptized person becomes the property and possession of the Lord. The Holy Baptism also marks the radical transformation of somebody’s heart that has already occurred by the Divine grace. In fact in the first several centuries of Christianity most of those being baptized were adults who would have a long time of preparation before Baptism, profess their faith and answer several questions to a bishop. Baptism was a seal that was received by people who had already come to believe in Christ and had been transformed morally. This sacrament is also interpreted as “sealing” in a number of epistles of Apostle Paul (see 2 Cor. 1:22; Eph. 1:13 and 4:30). Therefore, “those sealed by God” are those who were baptized.
The sacrament of Chrismation is “the spiritual seal” too. Apostle Paul said more than once that a Christian is sealed by the Holy Spirit. You can find the following statements in the holy apostle’s epistles:
  • Ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise (Eph. 1:13);
  • And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption (Eph. 4:30);
  • Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts (2 Cor. 1:22).
In ancient times believers received the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands (performed by a bishop), and in modern times it is done through Chrismation. Today the priest administering the sacrament of Chrismation with holy oil says, “The Seal and Gift of the Holy Spirit.” If we understand “sealing” as “anointing with chrism”, then the angel sealing the servants of God can be compared with a bishop or a priest who performs Chrismation.
According to the exegetists, there can be one more interpretation of “the seal of God”. We read in the Book of Ezekiel:
And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon he was, to the threshold of the house. And he called to the man clothed with linen, which had the writer's inkhorn by his side; And the Lord said unto him, Go through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and set a mark upon the foreheads of the men that sigh and that cry for all the abominations that be done in the midst thereof (Ezek. 9:3-4).






The Hebrew letter “tav”.
In the Hebrew Bible we read not “set a mark”, but “set a mark tav”. “Tav” was the last letter of the ancient Hebrew alphabet that used to be written as a small cross in ancient times.
“Sealing” of Christians at the time of the antichrist probably means that the Lord will help them bear their personal cross of Christian piety and faithfulness to the Creator with faith and patience. “The seal of the Life-Giving Cross will distinguish the unfaithful from the faithful, who will bear the sign of Christ before them unashamed and with boldness,”1 St. Andrew of Caesarea wrote. “The Cross is a prefiguration of the salvation to come, and… it signifies the end, the last letter being a sign of the final choice,” the martyred Fr. Daniel Sysoev explained.
In addition, there are other possible interpretations of marking the faithful ones with the seal of God.
“This seal is imprinting of Divine grace on the best and the worthiest of the Christian Church members, which, transforming their souls, will transform their appearance as well – that is, their brows,” wrote Alexander Lopukhin in his Explanatory Bible.
Some other commentators speak of “the seal of martyrdom”. Others interpret it as being chosen, blessed or protected by God. Many presume that it is the seal of the Christian faith that will be received by many Jews shortly before the Second Coming, according to the prophecy of St. Paul (see Rom. 11:26). The enumeration of the tribes of Israel in chapter 7 of the Revelation (see Rev. 7:4-8) suggests an idea that “the sealed servants of God” are Jewish converts to Christianity.
If we associate the verse Rev. 7:2-3 with Rev. 22:4, which reads …They shall see His Face; and His Name shall be in their foreheads in reference to those saved, then, according to our exegetists, “the Name of God” on foreheads may imply a perpetual memory of the Lord, an unceasing communion with Him, a special closeness to the Savior and an inextinguishable love for Him.
Thus, we have found so many different interpretations of the Biblical “seal of God”! It would seem that these questions should concern every sincere believer above all: what is the seal of God? How can we receive and keep it? But, alas, many of us are more interested in the antichrist with his horrors than in Christ. I recall how in the late 1990s Fr. Andrei Kuraev recounted that he had asked people in many towns, “Do you want to talk about Christ or about the antichrist?” and most of them had answered him, “About the antichrist!” I think that even today if we put up two posters in one or another town, reading “A famous theologian N. is going to deliver a lecture on Christ” and “A famous theologian N.N. is going to deliver a lecture on the antichrist”, the majority of people will come to listen to the theologian N.N.
Truly, there is such flaw in our Church consciousness that has to do with our lack of love for Christ. A genuine interest in the Holy Scriptures, an active participation in the Divine Liturgy, spiritual labor, keeping the commandments, and an in-depth study of our faith will be able to heal this spiritual disease. Reading Church commentaries on the Apocalypse can be strongly recommended to any Orthodox believer as well. And apart from chapter 13 of the Book of the Revelation, which speaks of the mark of the beast, one should pay special attention to chapter 7 which speaks of the seal of the living God. He who has the seal of God will never agree to take the mark of the antichrist, and he who really loves Christ will never betray Him.
Sergei Komarov
Translated by Dmitry Lapa

Pravoslavie.ru
2/7/2018
1 The citation source: http://saintandrewgoc.org/home/2016/9/6/the-book-of-revelation-apocalypse



President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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THE MOST TERRIBLE OF THE LORD’S PROPHECIES
« Reply #15 on: April 10, 2021, 12:50:55 PM »
Matthew 24:3-34 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many. And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows. Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another. And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:) Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains: Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened. Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not. For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together. Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken: And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh: So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. 35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Today the Lord speaks to us of the mystery of the Judgment, which is being carried out over the Church even now and which will be revealed in His Second and glorious Coming. When He sat on the Mount of Olives, His disciples came alone to Him and asked: Tell us, when shall these things be?
The disciples ask the Lord of the times and dates and signs of His Coming and the end of the age. Without saying a word about the times and dates, the Lord begins with a warning: Take heed that no man deceive you. Seducers and deceivers are enemies of the Church more dangerous than persecutors. Verily, those who kill the true prophet are first entrapped by false prophets. And those who crucified the true Messiah Christ first allowed themselves to be deceived by false christs and false messiahs. But this test must come so that those who are Christ’s may be revealed.
The Lord tells us that under the guise of the greatest good can hide the greatest evil. Who are false prophets? First of all, those who are seduced by the inspiration of false spirituality, false religions, including those false prophets we have seen in the last century, when millions of people were deceived by the spirit of the enemy. But false prophets can also be from among those in the Church, moreover, people who may teach in the Church and hold important places in it. They are the most dangerous because they are least likely to be suspected of deception.
False christs and false prophets have legions of their servants everywhere, through whom they attract the souls of men to themselves. The consequence of accepting the false teaching of these false prophets will be great calamities on Earth. And when the calamities become so unbearable that people are ready to grasp at everything that seems like deliverance to them, then they will be told: “Here is Christ and there is Christ,” and, “He is in the deserts and in the secret chambers.” As proof of their claims, the servants of the enemy of mankind shew great signs and wonders. Not those genuine miracles that seal the grace and truth of Christ, but those by which they seduce many, and if it were possible … the very elect.
If it were possible … the very elect. The Lord speaks of the power of deception. It will be such that many will be captured by it and few will be able to resist. Even those who think they will stand strong. And the elect are not those who consider themselves such, but those whom the Lord has chosen—and the devil will try to deceive them.
However, the words “if possible” mean that it will be impossible for the enemy, although man always remains free, wherever he is, whatever spiritual heights he reaches. But genuine freedom consists in such an affirmation in the good that a man is already free from evil and can reject any of its provocations. He is already so united with Christ that Christ lives in him (Gal. 2:20). Where the grace of God works, it is impossible to separate a Christian from Christ. Therefore, it will be impossible for the enemy to defeat the Church of Christ.
The Lord prophesies about the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple. And He gives an image of the end of the world. One plan is superimposed upon another. The destruction of the world will be according to the image of the destruction of the Temple of Jerusalem, the most holy site before the Coming of Christ, which existed to maintain the elect of God in holiness and through them, all of mankind, to accept Christ the Messiah.
The Lord speaks of wars. Living in such a sinful state, mankind will naturally have wars. He warns of incessant calamities and persecutions against the Church. When the twentieth century began, many, hearing these Gospel words about the persecution of the Church, thought that this prophecy had already been fulfilled, as had many other of the Savior’s prophecies. However, the twentieth century saw something that far surpassed anything that had come before. Do we not think the exact same thing now, hearing these words of the Lord—that this prophecy has already been fulfilled, and all the main trials are behind us? Soon the wolves in sheep’s clothing will drop their masks and appear simply as wolves before the flock of Christ’s sheep.
But, perhaps the most terrible of all the Lord’s prophecies is the prophecy that because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold. One is a consequence of the other. The world always lies in evil, but there is coming a particular time when we can say that lawlessness will abound. And the more brazen the evil will be, the weaker will be the resistance of good, that is, love—the highest manifestation of good—although it would seem everything should be the opposite.
Such terrible words: “Love will wax cold.” It’s the same as saying life will die. It’s the same as saying, ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation … stand in the holy place (Mt. 24:15). To be a Christian means to be a loving person. Where is there love in the world? In the Church of Christ. If there is no love in the Church, there can be no love in the world. Before the Church, every one of us will stand before the Cross of Christ; therefore, today’s judgment over the Church consists in our testing ourselves, whether we have this love. Of course, we don’t achieve what the word of God tells us about love as a union of perfection, as a grace that ever lives in our hearts. However, we cannot live without striving for love. It is only because of this that we are alive and thanks to this that the world is alive. If we stop striving for love, then the light that is in the world, that is, the Church of Christ, will become darkness. And what then will be the darkness in the world?
But even in a world that doesn’t know God, human love is always present as a residual light, by which man still exists. Where does this residual light exist above all? In the family. However, today, before our very eyes, everything is being done to destroy the family—and very successfully, as we can see. Where else is human love manifested? Where there are the most intimate and exalted relationships between a man and a woman. What happens here? What used to be called fate, the dream of your betrothed, is now increasingly being superseded by what they say is an easily-replaceable partnership. Finally, children. Where there are children, it is impossible for there to be no love. Whoever doesn’t love children has a dangerously, fatally ill soul. But now this is a mass phenomenon. More and more we see children simply as nuisances. We well know that millions of children are killed before birth or are corrupted almost from their very birth. Day and night, the false media prophets of the propaganda of hate leave no stone unturned on what is the foundation of human life.
The Lord tells us today that amidst this horror, when the abomination of desolation … will stand in the holy place, that not only in the Church, where love waxes cold, but in all of mankind, he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. We must endure to the end—not only in the midst of persecutions and prisons, not only on our sick beds, but even when the world with its lust of the flesh occupies everything—all of culture, all the schools, all the streets with their vile advertisements for sin, and all the homes where these visible demons enter every day and they are received as desired guests; all minds and hearts. And we Christians are nothing to this world; Christ is no one and nothing for them. And they want to interweave us into their stinking fabric as a decorative pattern. Where there is at least a spark of the Divine in life, has it remained? Truly, love waxes cold. Is this not a clear sign of the end?
It is not for us to know the times and dates, says the Lord (1 Thess. 5:1). But it is our duty, because we are Christians, to stand on the final borders of the Kingdom of Christ, where love is above all, until the end; wherever it can still be preserved, both in the Church and outside the Church, in all human relations. Let the Church enter today into that darkness that was from the sixth hour … unto the ninth hour (Mt. 27:45), although the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not (Jn. 1:5). We hear these words on Pascha night, when the triumph of evil turns into its complete defeat. And we must be this light if we are truly Christ’s. By the word of Christ and by the gift of Christ, we must be this light. God trusts us to be faithful to Him, and He speaks so that this word of light, which is offered to us today, would be heard correctly.
The love of many shall wax cold, says the Lord. But He does not say that love waxes cold in all. In the worst of times, like when the Prophet Elijah, in the midst of a general apostasy, thought that he was alone, the Lord reveals that there is a remnant that remains faithful to Him. There are those for whom preserving at least a drop of the love that God give is more valuable than anything in this world, even their own lives.
Love … shall wax cold. But the Lord does not say that it will die. Is it in vain that the Lord reveals the same, simplest and deepest mystery over and over again ever year, before our very eyes? When it seems everything is dead under the snow, we know that there is life in the roots, and it will thrive as soon as winter is gone. When the Lord’s Pascha comes, we hear these words: “Today spring’s sweetness fills the air.” This love of God, which overcomes all the hatred of hell, all the evil of the world, triumphs, and we are called to enter into the joy of our Lord.
But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved—but only in love. The Church of God will endure, but only by love. And although many will be tempted, there will always be those who endure all the way to the end. Who are we and where are we in the midst of the Dread Judgment of the Lord’s Cross?
Archpriest Alexander Shargunov
Translated by Jesse Dominick

Pravoslavie.ru
4/13/2020


President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

gymvol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2021, 02:30:22 PM »
Why study it if you aren't smart enough to even know who did the revealing? You certainly aren't smart enough to understand the meaning of what was revealed if you don't know John was only a messenger and not the Revelator.

So Dan no wonder you stay confused on what is or is not pagan or the perverted version of Christianity and not the truth. You keep referring to and posting the error about the book of Revelations or Apocalypse which is Greek for revealing or uncovering as the Revelation of St. John.

The fifth chapter explains who true the Revelator is or the one who does the revealing which is none other than Jesus himself.

Chapter six is about Jesus opening the first six seals of the scroll or book to REVEAL what each one means. John just writes down what he witnesses.

John was simply the messenger or witness of the REVEALING of the scroll or book so you and wherever you are getting your version are wrong.

Revelation 5

And I saw in the right hand of him that sat on the throne a book written within and on the backside, sealed with seven seals.
2 And I saw a strong angel proclaiming with a loud voice, Who is worthy to open the book, and to loose the seals thereof?
3 And no man in heaven, nor in earth, neither under the earth, was able to open the book, neither to look thereon.
4 And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon.
5 And one of the elders saith unto me, Weep not: behold, the Lion of the tribe of Judah, the Root of David, hath prevailed to open the book, and to loose the seven seals thereof.
6 And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth.
7 And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne.
8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
11 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
12 Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing.
13 And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
14 And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever.

Revelation 6



And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2 And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3 And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4 And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5 And when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see. And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7 And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
9 And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
10 And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
11 And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?


« Last Edit: April 10, 2021, 02:37:34 PM by gymvol »
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

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fuzzynavol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #17 on: April 10, 2021, 02:45:56 PM »
17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
Wait, I though he wasn't supposed to be a vengeful and vindictive god who sends people to Hell.  I thought we sent ourselves to Hell by "refusing the gift of his love" (or some such nonsense)?  

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #18 on: April 10, 2021, 02:50:55 PM »
Dan no wonder you stay confused on what is or is not pagan or the perverted version of Christianity and not the truth. You keep referring to and posting the error about the book of Revelations or Apocalypse which is Greek for revealing or uncovering as the Revelation of St. John.
Actually it is Revelation not Revelations

You really do not understand where the different religions came from do you?

 

So tell us what is your denomination?

Do you know who started the first Church? Do you understand the great Schism, why it occurred? Do you understand what Luther was trying to do when he nailed some of his writings  on the Roman Catholic Churches door? Have you ever read them? Have you ever read the writings of the early church fathers? Do you know who taught them? Do you realize it is ok to celebrate Pascha? Do you even know what it is? Do you realize it's ok to celebrate Christs birth? Do you know anything about the churches who spread off from the original church? Do you realize it was just in the past 100 years or so some have been exposed to modernity and the original church? Do you know how many doctrinal differences they had and why would that be? Do you think it is ok to say the Bible is wrong? God's word has lies in it? .......




President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #19 on: April 10, 2021, 03:03:36 PM »
Wait, I though he wasn't supposed to be a vengeful and vindictive god who sends people to Hell.  I thought we sent ourselves to Hell by "refusing the gift of his love" (or some such nonsense)? 
It is your choice and yours alone, where you spend eternity.

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2021, 04:31:01 PM »
Sources of doctrine
Jehovah's Witnesses believe their denomination is a restoration of first-century Christianity.[145] Doctrines of Jehovah's Witnesses are established by the Governing Body, which assumes responsibility for interpreting and applying scripture.[8][146][147] The Governing Body does not issue any single, comprehensive "statement of faith", but prefers to express its doctrinal position in a variety of ways through publications published by the Watch Tower Society.[148] Their publications teach that doctrinal changes and refinements result from a process of progressive revelation, in which God gradually reveals his will and purpose,[149][150][151][152] and that such enlightenment or "new light"[153] results from the application of reason and study,[154] the guidance of the holy spirit, and direction from Jesus Christ and angels.[155] The Society also teaches that members of the Governing Body are helped by the holy spirit to discern "deep truths", which are then considered by the entire Governing Body before it makes doctrinal decisions.[156] The group's leadership, while disclaiming divine inspiration and infallibility,[157] is said to provide "divine guidance"[158] through its teachings described as "based on God's Word thus ... not from men, but from Jehovah."[159][160]
The entire Protestant canon of scripture is considered the inspiredinerrant word of God.[161] Jehovah's Witnesses consider the Bible to be scientifically and historically accurate and reliable[162] and interpret much of it literally, but accept parts of it as symbolic.[163] They consider the Bible to be the final authority for all their beliefs,[164] although sociologist Andrew Holden's ethnographic study of the group concluded that pronouncements of the Governing Body, through Watch Tower Society publications, carry almost as much weight as the Bible.[165] Regular personal Bible reading is frequently recommended; Witnesses are discouraged from formulating doctrines and "private ideas" reached through Bible research independent of Watch Tower Society publications, and are cautioned against reading other religious literature.[166][167][168] Adherents are told to have "complete confidence" in the leadership, avoid skepticism about what is taught in the Watch Tower Society's literature, and "not advocate or insist on personal opinions or harbor private ideas when it comes to Bible understanding."[169][170][171][172] The organization makes no provision for members to criticize or contribute to official teachings[173] and all Witnesses must abide by its doctrines and organizational requirements.[174]

Eschatology
Main article: Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses
Eschatology of Jehovah's Witnesses
A central teaching of Jehovah's Witnesses is that the current world era, or "system of things", entered the "last days" in 1914 and faces imminent destruction through intervention by God and Jesus Christ, leading to deliverance for those who worship God acceptably.[210] They consider all other present-day religions to be false, identifying them with "Babylon the Great", or the "harlot", of Revelation 17,[211] and believe that they will soon be destroyed by the United Nations, which they believe is represented in scripture by the scarlet-colored wild beast of Revelation chapter 17. This development will mark the beginning of the "great tribulation".[212][213] Satan will subsequently use world governments to attack Jehovah's Witnesses, an action that will prompt God to begin the war of Armageddon, during which all forms of government and all people not counted as Christ's "sheep" will be destroyed. After Armageddon, God will extend his heavenly kingdom to include earth, which will be transformed into a paradise similar to the Garden of Eden.[214] Most of those who had died before God's intervention will gradually be resurrected during the thousand year "judgment day". This judgment will be based on their actions after resurrection rather than past deeds. At the end of the thousand years, Christ will hand all authority back to God. Then a final test will take place when Satan is released to mislead perfect mankind. Those who fail will be destroyed, along with Satan and his demons. The end result will be a fully tested, glorified human race on earth.[215][216]
Jehovah's Witnesses believe that Jesus Christ began to rule in heaven as king of God's kingdom in October 1914, and that Satan was subsequently ousted from heaven to the earth, resulting in "woe" to humanity. They believe that Jesus rules invisibly, from heaven, perceived only as a series of "signs". They base this belief on a rendering of the Greek word parousia—usually translated as "coming" when referring to Christ—as "presence". They believe Jesus' presence includes an unknown period beginning with his inauguration as king in heaven in 1914, and ending when he comes to bring a final judgment against humans on earth. They thus depart from the mainstream Christian belief that the "second coming" of Matthew 24 refers to a single moment of arrival on earth to judge humans.[217][218]



gymvol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2021, 04:41:51 PM »
Actually it is Revelation not Revelations

You really do not understand where the different religions came from do you?

 

So tell us what is your denomination?

Do you know who started the first Church? Do you understand the great Schism, why it occurred? Do you understand what Luther was trying to do when he nailed some of his writings  on the Roman Catholic Churches door? Have you ever read them? Have you ever read the writings of the early church fathers? Do you know who taught them? Do you realize it is ok to celebrate Pascha? Do you even know what it is? Do you realize it's ok to celebrate Christs birth? Do you know anything about the churches who spread off from the original church? Do you realize it was just in the past 100 years or so some have been exposed to modernity and the original church? Do you know how many doctrinal differences they had and why would that be? Do you think it is ok to say the Bible is wrong? God's word has lies in it? .......








Since you're nitpicking it's not religions it's different Christian religious denominations and yes I do know where they come from, how they got perverted into pagan worship and keeping a Sunday as THE sabbath.

I also know who started the first church and unlike you I know it wasn't St. Peter it was Jesus Christ himself who is the head of that church which is the only true church. He established it when he was here and it's not the one that has been invented by man calling itself the church. You can post all the graphs you want but again you are wrong a MAN did not start the true church of God and there is only one not numerous denominations teaching different gospels to fit society.

But I believe you're the one who keeps saying the bible is wrong with your Easter celebration starting with "Good Friday" and ending with a sunrise service Sunday morning claiming that's three days and three nights.  :s_laugh:
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton

Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2021, 04:55:20 PM »
Why don’t Jehovah’s Witnesses celebrate Easter?
  • The Easter holiday celebration is not based on the Bible.
  • Jesus commanded that we commemorate his death, not his resurrection. We observe this Memorial each year on the anniversary of his death according to the Bible’s lunar calendar.—Luke 22:19, 20.
  • We believe that the origins of Easter customs, which come from ancient fertility rites, make Easter unacceptable to God. God requires that we give him “exclusive devotion,” and he is offended by worship that includes practices that he does not approve of.—Exodus 20:5; 1 Kings 18:21.
We believe that our decision to abstain from celebrating Easter is based firmly on the Bible, which encourages the use of “practical wisdom and thinking ability” rather than simply following human traditions. (Proverbs 3:21; Matthew 15:3) While we share our beliefs about Easter with others when asked, we also respect each person’s right to decide what he will do.—1 Peter 3:15.



Cincydawg

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2021, 04:56:58 PM »
BBC - Religions - Witnesses: Jehovah's Witnesses at a glance
BBC - Religions - Witnesses: Jehovah's Witnesses at a glance

Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas or Easter because they believe that these festivals are based on (or massively contaminated by) pagan customs and religions. They point out that Jesus did not ask his followers to mark his birthday.

The church is strongly millennial and believes that humanity is now in the 'last days' and that the final battle between good and evil will happen soon.


fuzzynavol

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2021, 05:15:48 PM »
It is your choice and yours alone, where you spend eternity.
 Welp, according to some the creator of the Universe has really got it in for me, so I'm going to experience his "wrath" for not "worshipping" him.  

Silly, isn't it?  

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2021, 05:42:03 PM »
Sources of doctrine
Who gives a rats ass?

Oh my should I self report that too?
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #26 on: April 10, 2021, 05:47:08 PM »
Welp, according to some the creator of the Universe has really got it in for me, so I'm going to experience his "wrath" for not "worshipping" him. 

Silly, isn't it? 
What's silly is  ashiest such as yourself try to make people accept half truths to just right out lies.

I pray you along with Cincy and his band of merry disruptors someday see the light
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: WHY STUDY THE BOOK OF REVELATION?
« Reply #27 on: April 10, 2021, 05:50:40 PM »


Since you're nitpicking it's not religions it's different Christian religious denominations and yes I do know where they come from, how they got perverted into pagan worship and keeping a Sunday as THE sabbath.

I also know who started the first church and unlike you I know it wasn't St. Peter it was Jesus Christ himself who is the head of that church which is the only true church. He established it when he was here and it's not the one that has been invented by man calling itself the church. You can post all the graphs you want but again you are wrong a MAN did not start the true church of God and there is only one not numerous denominations teaching different gospels to fit society.

But I believe you're the one who keeps saying the bible is wrong with your Easter celebration starting with "Good Friday" and ending with a sunrise service Sunday morning claiming that's three days and three nights.  :s_laugh:
M my my what masterful performer you are of rectal acrobatics  you are with your game.

I celebrate Pascha and I gave you a brief history of it here https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/the-history-of-easter-and-it's-pagan-roots/msg325286/#msg325286. Likewise if you knew Church History you would know  what Denomination that started from and who founded the Church and who carried it forth as talked about in the Book Of Acts


Tell us why are you afraid to answer the questions asked ''So tell us what is your denomination?


Do you know who started the first Church? Do you understand the great Schism, why it occurred? Do you understand what Luther was trying to do when he nailed some of his writings  on the Roman Catholic Churches door? Have you ever read them? Have you ever read the writings of the early church fathers? Do you know who taught them? Do you realize it is ok to celebrate Pascha? Do you even know what it is? Do you realize it's ok to celebrate Christs birth? Do you know anything about the churches who spread off from the original church? Do you realize it was just in the past 100 years or so some have been exposed to modernity and the original church? Do you know how many doctrinal differences they had and why would that be? Do you think it is ok to say the Bible is wrong? God's word has lies in it? .......'' (As a note that is your ass not mine)

 As a note your and your buddies where exposed by a lengthy post in this thread about paganism and Christianity in this thread    https://www.cfb51.com/area-51/bart-d-ehrman-is-a-lying-pos/

and you did you typcial let me try to belittle someone so I can feel good about my self m utiple times and got burnt for it too

Quote from: gymvol on April 07, 2021, 12:33:30 PM

Quote
No one really reads all that stuff you copy and past so try cutting it down to a couple of paragraphs.

In other words you are intellectually lazy. That makes you willfully ignorant

So once again how do you and the churches get three days and three nights from Friday just before sundown to sunrise Sunday morning?

Maybe if you read and thought you might learn that you accusation is just another lie. I discussed a little with you how at Christ times the Hebrews (The people who wrote the original books) viewed a day. Not my fault if you want to stick to a modern view instead of what was in context. But then again that would mean you would have to read something 

You can't so by what you and the church believe and preach you say Jesus lied by what his sign was which is three days and three nights in the earth as Jonah was three days and night in the whale or great fish. 

Never said that so why lie?

You can use fuzzy math and false church doctrine all you won't but you're lying to yourself and to others.

Maybe if you read and thought you might learn that you accusation is just another lie

You sound more like the democrats trying to silence conservatives calling me a disrupter

Not my fault you are getting more and more like someone that I said you are becoming a honorary member.

for spreading the truth to all of you who have bought into the lies of The Church and her off spring keeping the wrong sabbath and celebrating pagan holidays.

You can tell God that observing His sons birth and death are nothing but pagan holidays all you want. It is not my ass

 But that's par for The Church and those who follow the same teachings to silence those who don't believe as they do.  What next Dan an Inquisition and burn me at the stake for hierarchy?

Just like Cincy make up issues that are not so just so you can try to stake a moral high ground.  So you can whine and make more false accusations. Just like Cincy I think you need to grow up  

You may not like what I say but Jesus said:  “If you abide in My word, you are My disciples indeed. 32 And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”

He also said: But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.    That's where we differ I don't follow the teachings or commandments of men with their false Christianity.

As I said I will follow those and the Church his disciples and those who they taught created, not those of modern man, nor will I give cover to false prophets. teachings, etc. or musings of my own imagination. 

 

and got burnt by another poster as well 


Quote
Boy.  I bet ol’ Gymbo is a lot of fun at church picnics…

Gym, it’s apparent you’re not a happy camper.  I’m sorry to see that.  Certainly, there’s a lot to be unhappy about in this sorry world.  How much of your expressed bitterness is personal, is not my business.  I’ll say a prayer for you.  Not seeing a lot of salt and light in your discourse.  Quite the opposite, actually.

Your hapless divisive rancor merits no more response then does Cincy’s tepid non-commitalism.  And speaks for itself — you have incriminated yourself with your baseless and bizarre accusations.

I would be remiss, however, to ignore one facet of your repeated obnoxious allegations. 

C. S Lewis?  Really?

You want to denigrate one of God’s great gifts to the 20th century, and after?  One of the greatest intellects to ever put pen to paper?  A man who, probably better than any other in modern times, has provided a defense of, and explanation for, the Christian faith?  Whose gift was to present Christianity to the thinking, honest, objective, open-minded (“free-thinking”, LOL) unbeliever in arguments designed to appeal to reason and rationality?

I have said many times that there will be a long, long line in Heaven, waiting to thank this great and brilliant intellectual for his contribution to their being there.  And I will be in it.

Whatever your problem is, sir, I assure you that neither Mr. Lewis, Dan, nor I have any part in it.

I do pray that you and Cincy and his band of merry disruptors someday see the light.


I do like this one quote it is very accurate 

Quote
I, for one, will refrain from participating in the circular firing squad that divisive, self-righteous Christians like you seem to enjoy arranging with fellow believers. But I think it needs to include nonbelievers as well given the ping pong game being played by blind pigeons as well

:a012:
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

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