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Topic: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:

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fuzzynavol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #112 on: April 22, 2021, 07:18:55 PM »
Not sure what you mean - there was no prosecution or verdict in the Michael Brown case, and the protests started immediately.

Thank you for the correction - the protests happened en masse after the decision not to prosecute.  

Black Live Matter could suggest there are racist white cops everywhere

Baselessly.

but I think it more accurately implies that our country and especially the justice system treats black people as largely more expendable and less valuable.
 
They only march after white cops kill black criminals, usually after good kills.  Then when BLM supporters get cornered on the data, they'll pivot and start watering down the mission to nebulous platitudes like "systemic racism."  

That is very much supported by the data.

That's the party line, but like I said more often than not when I see a senseless murder by a black man and see his priors, I'm dumbfounded that they ever let him out of jail.  There was a murder within the last month by a man who had murdered his mother two years ago.  

harvestalvol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #113 on: April 22, 2021, 07:31:27 PM »
Fuzz is now the voice of reason. Hell has finally frozen over?

billyboy75

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #114 on: April 22, 2021, 07:35:04 PM »
Been thinking the same thing.

Too good to be true.

But just maybe there is a reforming Fuzz.

HK_Vol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #115 on: April 23, 2021, 04:26:21 AM »
Not sure what you mean - there was no prosecution or verdict in the Michael Brown case, and the protests started immediately.

Black Live Matter could suggest there are racist white cops everywhere, but I think it more accurately implies that our country and especially the justice system treats black people as largely more expendable and less valuable. That is very much supported by the data.
Please show the data, because I'm seeing data like this:

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2021/04/22/data_undercuts_myth_of_racism_in_police_killings_145640.html

SNIP:
Officers kill blacks at a higher rate than their share of the population: 25% of the suspects killed were black, 45% white, and 16% Hispanic. As for where the deaths are occurring, black suspects tend to die in heavily black larger cities with populations averaging over 600,000, while whites are killed in smaller cities with an average population of 250,000.

White suspects were slightly more likely to be holding a firearm than blacks (63% to 61%). Black and white suspects were both equally likely to be involved in violent crime when they lose their lives at an officer’s hands, though blacks who died were more likely to be involved in drug or property offenses. But police generally have more challenging jobs in cities where blacks are killed. The average city where blacks are killed had a 61% higher violent crime rate and 126% higher murder rate than where the average white was killed.

After accounting for these and other factors, including averaged cultural differences in police departments, we found that black officers were at least as likely as their white peers to kill black suspects, but that black officers were more likely to kill unarmed blacks than were white officers.


Lott is the president of the Crime Prevention Research Center and the author most recently of “Gun Control Myths.” Until last month, Lott was the senior adviser for research and statistics at the U.S. Department of Justice’s Office of Legal Policy.



















HK_Vol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #116 on: April 23, 2021, 05:24:22 AM »
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MaximumSam

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #118 on: April 23, 2021, 06:55:52 AM »

Quote
Thank you for the correction - the protests happened en masse after the decision not to prosecute.  
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferguson_unrest


Yes, there were protests after that decision, but the protests started immediately after his killing and led to the DOJ becoming involved well before that. 


Quote
They only march after white cops kill black criminals, usually after good kills.  Then when BLM supporters get cornered on the data, they'll pivot and start watering down the mission to nebulous platitudes like "systemic racism."  
Well, that's the real trick, isn't it. People don't get all up in arms because of historic racism leading to poverty. That is unquestionably true, and unquestionably impacts black americans, but doesn't lead to protests. Killing someone does. There is no Protest Board which coolly examines all the facts and then picks the cause to which people will protest. The Mike Brown protests weren't fueled by examnining data, they were fooled by people feeling like this shit sucks and they didn't want to take it anymore. And, while the DOJ largely exonerated the officer, it did find the Ferguson police department essentially treated black people like garbage and walking ATMs, which is probably what led to that feeling in the first place.






fuzzynavol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #119 on: April 23, 2021, 09:27:03 AM »

There is no Protest Board which coolly examines all the facts and then picks the cause to which people will protest. The Mike Brown protests weren't fueled by examnining data, they were fooled by people feeling like this shit sucks and they didn't want to take it anymore.
 
Read the signs - listen to the chants - the messaging is unmistakable - they are convinced that there is an epidemic of white racist law enforecments' indifference to black lives.  They are simply wrong. 

And you are rationalizing their wrongheadedness by scapegoating poverty - always a convenient excuse for everything that ails black America.  

And, while the DOJ largely exonerated the officer, it did find the Ferguson police department essentially treated black people like garbage and walking ATMs, which is probably what led to that feeling in the first place.

This is true, and an under-told story.  I'd bet most of the arsonists, rioters and killers of shop owners are unaware of it and haven't posted a thing about it on Instagram.  


Cincydawg

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #121 on: April 23, 2021, 10:56:27 AM »
We incarcerate young people at much higher rates than old people, men at higher rates than women, and nobody talks about that.

If your life style intersects more often with law enforcement than the usual person, you can expect higher rates of incarceration.  The police here are majority black, and yet most of those prosecuted by FAR are also black.

MaximumSam

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #122 on: April 23, 2021, 12:28:24 PM »

Quote
Read the signs - listen to the chants - the messaging is unmistakable - they are convinced that there is an epidemic of white racist law enforecments' indifference to black lives.  They are simply wrong. 

And you are rationalizing their wrongheadedness by scapegoating poverty - always a convenient excuse for everything that ails black America.
Here's the thing. You are objecting that is is simply unfair for people to think of officers as racist and out to get black people. It is unfair. But it also isn't fair that black people get the short end of the stick on nearly everything. Is it fair that black people have lost huge amounts of money simply because white people didn't want to live near them? No! Is it fair that a black kid born in the hood is going to be surrounded by crime and given the short end of the stick on schools, opportunity, shopping, money, and who knows what else? No, it isn't fair. If you are honestly bothered by unfairness, then that's a worthy part to look at too.


Further, if you are the one getting screwed, how much are you going to ponder the mindset of the people doing the screwing?


Quote
This is true, and an under-told story.  I'd bet most of the arsonists, rioters and killers of shop owners are unaware of it and haven't posted a thing about it on Instagram.  
Most, and by most I mean the vast, vast majority, of protesters aren't arsonists or killers of shop owners, and I'd say they aren't rioters but that is sort of a loose word that Republicans are trying to expand to anyone who protests.  There is zero question that most protesters are really only doing protesting and aren't doing any property damage or harm to anyone else. So why is it unfair to categorize cops as bad because of a few racist cops but a-ok to categorize all protesters as bad because of a few bad protesters? 

MaximumSam

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #123 on: April 23, 2021, 12:35:18 PM »

Quote
We incarcerate young people at much higher rates than old people, men at higher rates than women, and nobody talks about that.
People do actually talk about it quite a bit. One of the big issues is that our obsession with huge prison sentences on people means we have prisoners who are getting elderly, are no threat to anyone, and are just sitting in prison because some idiot in the past thought that was a good idea.



Quote
If your life style intersects more often with law enforcement than the usual person, you can expect higher rates of incarceration.  The police here are majority black, and yet most of those prosecuted by FAR are also black.
Yes, and you can really narrow it down - if you are a young black man in the hood, you will be interacting with law enforcement at a pretty high rate. It's just a question as to whether you want to be the victim or the perpetrator. Many people are both. Certainly, you are going to have a lot higher chance of interacting with law enforcement even if you are neither.

highVOLtage

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #124 on: April 23, 2021, 12:42:00 PM »
Most, and by most I mean the vast, vast majority, of protesters aren't arsonists or killers of shop owners, and I'd say they aren't rioters but that is sort of a loose word that Republicans are trying to expand to anyone who protests.  There is zero question that most protesters are really only doing protesting and aren't doing any property damage or harm to anyone else. So why is it unfair to categorize cops as bad because of a few racist cops but a-ok to categorize all protesters as bad because of a few bad protesters?

Now do the January 6th protesters.

fuzzynavol

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Re: We are so blessed go have leaders like Maxine Waters:
« Reply #125 on: April 23, 2021, 01:30:37 PM »
You are objecting that is is simply unfair for people to think of officers as racist and out to get black people. It is unfair.
 
It is unfair because it is untrue.  Don't you think BLM devotee's should know that?

But it also isn't fair that black people get the short end of the stick on nearly everything.
 
I agree.  Like the celebrated OJ verdict in the 90's, BLM isn't going to help blacks work their way up America's socio-economic caste system.  Look at what they've done to me - I'm starting to sound like Gymmie.   

Is it fair that black people have lost huge amounts of money simply because white people didn't want to live near them?  No! Is it fair that a black kid born in the hood is going to be surrounded by crime and given the short end of the stick on schools, opportunity, shopping, money, and who knows what else?  No, it isn't fair.  
 
There's an outlier in there - schools doesn't belong on the list.  To the extent the schools are inferior, that's largely their own fault if you're speaking collectively.  

If you are honestly bothered by unfairness, then that's a worthy part to look at too.

Everyone is bothered by unfairness.  None of this has anything to do with BLM's advocacy UNTIL you point out how wrong they are on law enforcement.  

Further, if you are the one getting screwed, how much are you going to ponder the mindset of the people doing the screwing?

If you're calling BLM irrational, then I agree.  

Most, and by most I mean the vast, vast majority, of protesters aren't arsonists or killers of shop owners, and I'd say they aren't rioters but that is sort of a loose word that Republicans are trying to expand to anyone who protests.  There is zero question that most protesters are really only doing protesting and aren't doing any property damage or harm to anyone else.

Granted, some are just there to egg others on, revel in all the "fun" and taking self-righteous-porn selfies for Instagram but if you think these are remotely honorable protests then we're watching different video footage.  All their messaging is patently untrue.  This is deplorable mob behavior - little else.  I'd love to blame the Republicans, but I have to trust my eyes.  Many of them are white - some may well meaning liberals trying to effect social progress for their black brothers and sisters, but too many appear to be hell-raising hooligans exploiting the anarchy. 

So why is it unfair to categorize cops as bad because of a few racist cops
 
Because even in the incredibly rare instance when a white cop does kill a black man unjustifiably, it's not apparent that it's attributable to racism.  

Usually, the killing is perfectly justifiable and BLM baselessly insists it's racism and the mob starts rioting.  

but a-ok to categorize all protesters as bad because of a few bad protesters?

I'm not judging the individuals, I'm judging the protests.  I have friend's who's sons have gone.  My own son might want to go to one if convenient.  These protests are baseless, destructive and counterproductive to black economic and social advancement.  And a sham.

BLM and its sympathizers don't appear to be able to "protest" responsibly.  Whether it's a minority of participants or not, fueled by social media, what we're generally seeing are better described as riots.  

 

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