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Topic: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now

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fuzzynavol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #28 on: September 14, 2018, 05:26:56 PM »
Why is it that progressives always view human activity as detrimental to the earth
 
Generally speaking, humans planting trees is good for the earth.  

as if mankind is some kind of parasite that only does harm to this ball of mud we inhabit?

Give yourself a pat on the back.  Implying that mankind has not affected the Earth's ecosystems is among the dumbest things I've ever read here.  

If humans really have the level of influence on the climate that some claim
 
"Some" claim?  Virtually "every expert" claims would be the accurate way to put it.   

then should humans not be able to also affect weather and climate positively, i.e. cool the atmosphere, prevent draughts, weaken hurricanes, etc. 

We probably could affect it in other ways (damning up all the rivers creating many more lakes all over the planet, deliberately burning large forests, etc.).  I doubt any man-made change in the Earth's climate would be positive (it's not nice to fool Mother Nature).  

HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #29 on: September 14, 2018, 07:21:30 PM »
The best solution then is for mankind to be eliminated from the planet.
That would solve the problem!
It certainly seems to the logical extension of the demands of some leftists....

highVOLtage

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #30 on: September 14, 2018, 10:36:33 PM »
The best solution then is for mankind to be eliminated from the planet.
That would solve the problem!
It certainly seems to the logical extension of the demands of some leftists....
Exactly. It's like they believe the existence of mankind is an affront to the planet.

fuzzynavol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #31 on: September 15, 2018, 08:10:34 AM »
The best solution then is for mankind to be eliminated from the planet.
That would solve the problem!
It certainly seems to the logical extension of the demands of some leftists....
There was a time, possibly as recently as 3,000 years ago, when our species was a functional part of the Earth's ecosystem.  No more.  And the technological innovations and populations explosion of the past 200 years has been particularly disastrous.  I have argued for years that over-population is the biggest problem facing mankind.  It's not about food/hunger or resources in the short term.  This planet's ecosystem simply didn't evolve to functionally sustain itself while accommodating 7 billion humans.  I know conservatives are uncomfortable with ambiguity and insist there must always be "solutions," but I'm afraid it's too late for your mocking suggestion of humans committing mass suicide.  The damage is already done.  We've wrecked it.  
I'm looking forward to someone arguing that humans been great for the planet, or that the planet and its ecosystem are in great shape, or that none of it really matters, which are the only ways to actually disagree.  

But to be fair to the Right, I guess the kooks who believe in the rapture might think the planet is expendable.  I disagree.  

TREX

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #32 on: September 15, 2018, 08:23:04 AM »
Exactly. It's like they believe the existence of mankind is an affront to the planet.
I have said this many times. But being a true Liberal they want YOU to die and they want to hang around.


Hoojang

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #33 on: September 15, 2018, 08:31:53 AM »
Fuzz, you seem to suggest that we've defecated in our nest, correct? 

Our ancient ancestors "may" have been a functional part of this utopian ecosystem at one point but their lack of being our neighbors now indicates they failed. 
Are you advocating we go back to a time when we had no healthcare, dental care and any knowledge beyond hunting and gathering? 

Were dinosaurs a functional part and if so what eliminated them from the utopian ecosystem? 
Did they realize their decomposition would be the fuel of the future? 
Do you?

Do you except that natural disasters have eliminated millions upon billions of life forms throughout the earths history? Life forms that are only viable on this very earth?

Does the earth even have a purpose if not for being mankinds one and only survivable ecosystem?


fuzzynavol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #34 on: September 15, 2018, 09:12:05 AM »
Fuzz, you seem to suggest that we've defecated in our nest, correct?

Everything's nest, yes.  

Our ancient ancestors "may" have been a functional part of this utopian ecosystem at one point
 
Inarguably they were, but it was far from "utopian."  The difficulties of survival in that ecosystem lead to all the innovations that have contributed to the planet's undoing.  We're a victim of our own intelligence. 

but their lack of being our neighbors now indicates they failed.

I have no idea what this means.  

Are you advocating we go back to a time when we had no healthcare, dental care and any knowledge beyond hunting and gathering?

Again, I realize conservatives are uncomfortable with ambiguity and insist on "solutions," but I'm not "advocating" anything.  I'm simply stating a problem.  THE problem.  

Were dinosaurs a functional part
 
For hundreds of millions of years (as opposed to our 200K years)

and if so what eliminated them from the utopian ecosystem?

Again, ecosystem was functional, but not necessarily "utopian."  I'm wondering why you chose that word.  Regarding dinosaurs, isn't the consensus is that there was a cataclysmic, mass-extinction event (meteor)?  Why ask me - wouldn't google be a better starting place if you're curious?  

Did they realize their decomposition would be the fuel of the future?

No. 

Do you?

Yes.

Are you arguing that the mass extinction of humans might be a good thing for some future, unforeseen, dominant species?

Do you except that natural disasters have eliminated millions upon billions of life forms throughout the earths history?
 
Of course.  What does that have to do with over-population and the destruction of the planet's ecosystem?  

Life forms that are only viable on this very earth?

No, I don't accept that - I don't know what other planets may be out there with similar living conditions.  This planet evolved somewhere once, maybe others out there are similar.  

Does the earth even have a purpose if not for being mankinds one and only survivable ecosystem?

That may be the most profoundly weird question I've been asked in this forum.  I'll put it this way, the earth doesn't exist for mankind.  We're simply its smartest (ape) inhabitants.  And we have "defecated" all over it causing irreversible damage to its ecosystem. 

DunkingDan

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #35 on: September 15, 2018, 10:47:30 AM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #37 on: September 15, 2018, 06:04:59 PM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Hoojang

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #38 on: September 15, 2018, 06:17:08 PM »
"may" have been a functional part of this utopian ecosystem at one point
Inarguably they were, but it was far from "utopian."  The difficulties of survival in that ecosystem lead to all the innovations that have contributed to the planet's undoing.  We're a victim of our own intelligence.
but their lack of being our neighbors now indicates they failed.
I have no idea what this means.  
Of course you don't, it's obvious theres alot you don't understand..

Are you advocating we go back to a time when we had no healthcare, dental care and any knowledge beyond hunting and gathering?
Again, I realize conservatives are uncomfortable with ambiguity an insist on "solutions," but I'm not "advocating" anything.  I'm simply stating a problem.  THE problem.  
In what world do you live that doesn't require a solution to a problem?


Were dinosaurs a functional part
For hundreds of millions of years (as opposed to our 200K years)
and if so what eliminated them from the utopian ecosystem?
Again, ecosystem was functional, but not necessarily "utopian."  I'm wondering why you chose that word.  Regarding dinosaurs, isn't the consensus is that there was a cataclysmic, mass-extinction event (meteor)?  Why ask me - wouldn't google be a better starting place if you're curious?
Did they realize their decomposition would be the fuel of the future?
No.
Do you?
Yes.
Are you arguing that the mass extinction of humans might be a good thing for some future, unforeseen, dominant species?
Quite the contrary. When it comes to controlling the human population, that lay squarely on you prog/lib/socialist/communists.... I don't need to list the various ways your party(s) used and are using to thin the herd..... It's well known and undeniable.

Do you except that natural disasters have eliminated millions upon billions of life forms throughout the earths history?
Of course.  What does that have to do with over-population and the destruction of the planet's ecosystem?  
Everything, since we are discussing mans role in destroying the earth, the fact that countless species that once "ruled" the earth and became extinct by no fault of mankind indicates so called earth ending catastrophes didn't end the earth, nor life on it.....


Life forms that are only viable on this very earth?
No, I don't accept that - I don't know what other planets may be out there with similar living conditions.  This planet evolved somewhere once, maybe others out there are similar.  

Prove it.....


Does the earth even have a purpose if not for being mankinds one and only survivable ecosystem?
That may be the most profoundly weird question I've been asked in this forum.  I'll put it this way, the earth doesn't exist for mankind.  We're simply its smartest (ape) inhabitants.  And we have "defecated" all over it causing irreversible damage to its ecosystem.
No, I won't accept that I have posted anything weirder than you... LOL

HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #39 on: September 15, 2018, 07:37:34 PM »
I have argued for years that over-population is the biggest problem facing mankind. 

Well Fuzz - you are worrying about a problem from the 1960s - not today.
Many countries have the exact opposite problem.
Reminder - Total Fertility Rate needs to exceed 2.1 for a country to maintain its population....

https://blogs.worldbank.org/opendata/between960-and012-world-average-fertility-rate-halved5-births-woman

Between 1960 and 2012, the world average fertility rate halved to 2.5 births per woman

https://data.worldbank.org/indicator/sp.dyn.tfrt.in?year_high_desc=false
   1960       2016   
Korea, Rep.   6.1   1.2   
Singapore   5.8   1.2   
Hong Kong SAR, China   5.0   1.2   
Moldova   3.3   1.2   
Puerto Rico   4.7   1.3   
Portugal   3.2   1.3   
Macao SAR, China   4.8   1.3   
Poland   3.0   1.3   
Greece   2.2   1.3   
Spain   2.9   1.3   
Cyprus   3.5   1.3   
Italy   2.4   1.4   
Bosnia and Herzegovina   3.8   1.4   
Croatia   2.3   1.4   
Mauritius   6.2   1.4   
Slovak Republic   3.0   1.4   
Liechtenstein      1.4   
Japan   2.0   1.4   
Hungary   2.0   1.4   
Malta   3.6   1.4   
St. Lucia   7.0   1.5   
Serbia      1.5   
Ukraine   2.2   1.5   
Luxembourg   2.3   1.5   
Channel Islands   2.4   1.5   
Thailand   6.1   1.5   
Austria   2.7   1.5   
Germany   2.4   1.5   
Bulgaria   2.3   1.5   
Macedonia, FYR   3.8   1.5   
Switzerland   2.4   1.5   


World   5.0   2.4   
Central Europe and the Baltics   2.5   1.5   
Euro area   2.6   1.6   
Europe & Central Asia   2.8   1.8   
North America   3.7   1.8   
East Asia & Pacific   5.4   1.8   
Latin America & Caribbean   5.9   2.1   
South Asia   6.0   2.5   
Middle East & North Africa   6.9   2.8   
Pacific island small states   6.8   3.2   
Arab World   6.9   3.3   
Sub-Saharan Africa   6.6   4.8   


Conclusion?  The most advanced industrialized countries have the lowest TFR.
Suggestion?  Allow countries to grow faster via capitalism so as to reduce the fertility rate in those areas with high TFRs.




HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #40 on: September 15, 2018, 07:40:10 PM »
Japan's population will have declined by nearly 5 million people between 2010 and 2025.


fuzzynavol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #41 on: September 15, 2018, 07:57:34 PM »
I have argued for years that over-population is the biggest problem facing mankind.

Well Fuzz - you are worrying about a problem from the 1960s - not today.
Many countries have the exact opposite problem.
Reminder - Total Fertility Rate needs to exceed 2.1 for a country to maintain its population....
This has nothing to do with my thesis that overpopulation has destroyed the Earth's ecosystem.  
Now we're warming the Earth and the oceans are already infringing on our coastal populations.  All the sand on Miami's beaches was quietly put there by man at great expense.  If you think some of the European nation's keeping up their populations will cause economic problems, then imagine the upheaval caused by relocating over half the world's population.  It'll be fine for guys like us, we can just live in compounds protected by walls with razor wire.  I'm just worried about those who aren't so lucky.  

 

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