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Topic: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now

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VolRage

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #14 on: September 13, 2018, 04:45:15 PM »
Quote from: VolRage on Today at 01:16:37 PM
Quote
According to actual statistical data, in the first half of the last century there were nearly twice as many hurricanes that made landfall than the second half. That is a fact so why would I buy into the man made climate change theory.

That irrelevant, so-called "fact" that you must be ashamed to source doesn't appear in the WaPo article, so apparently you don't have any quarrel with anything contained within the article that inspired the OP.  

Not at all Fuzz since I typed that on my i-Phone but since I'm sitting behind a computer now I'll share the link. My quarrel is simple. I don't believe in man made climate change but I do believe in climate change.

 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamestaylor/2012/09/05/dont-believe-the-global-warmists-major-hurricanes-are-less-frequent/#64026c68f4de

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2018/08/18/cold-atlantic-water-means-less-hurricane-activity-as-peak-approaches/


Climate Change is no different. It’s a business, not a science.

Corporate polluters are the ones with the financial interest in this so-called debate.  How that isn't obvious to you boggles the mind.  You're impugning the professional integrity of well over 90% of the climate scientists all around the world for the past 20 years by alleging an absurdly wide-spread and likely impossible international conspiracy.

"Corporate polluters" in the United States. Fuzz, my degree is in Environmental Science and I've been in the Environmental business for a little over 20 years. Title V Air Permits, Minor Source Air Permits, etc.... all of which involve some air pollution plume modeling and calculating worst case air emissions (pollution). And then there is Water Pollution Prevention (NPDES) and Hazardous Waste Management. All of these activities require Permits from the state where the activities occur. There are federal regulations that all states must adhere to as minimum requirements for pollution prevention compliance and then there are the state regulations where they are allowed to be more stringent.

When submitting for a new Air Permit or making changes to the existing Permit, it must be blessed by the state which must at a minimum align with the federal pollution prevention standards or have more stringent pollution prevention standards.

When it comes to Air Permits the state / federal government even requires companies to capture emissions from aerosol cans. Crazy, I know. On top of that, most companies that have Air Permits are required to submit monthly emissions reports to their state EPA and then an annual emissions report at some point. Also, each of those facilities are subject to an unannounced inspection where the state or federal inspector will go over a companies data with a fine toothed comb because they are intently looking for any sign of impropriety so that they can fine the crap out of the company as a means to fund their state or federal agencies very existence. Talk about a financial interest.

So, do you mean to tell me that you're impugning the integrity of the each states EPA and the federal EPA by absurdly alleging that the United States isn't doing their part to minimize / eliminate air, water, and land pollution. You must be because I surely haven't ever seen you blame all of North Africa and all of Asia for their wide spread and well documented air, water, and land pollution. Those locations are the worlds leaders in air, water, and land pollution. People like you want to hang this whole man made global warming conspiracy trash on the shoulders of the United States as if we are the worlds leader in air, water, and land pollution. No we along with much of Europe are the ones that incorporated strict regulations to minimize the impact of air, water, and land pollution of our industrial businesses.

Holy crap. Wake up Fuzz. :SlAp:

 
« Last Edit: September 13, 2018, 04:49:25 PM by VolRage »

BrownCounty

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2018, 05:03:51 PM »
So no one has any disagreements with the actual content of the article?

Like a gypsy at a carnival just waiting for somebody to step in.

To hear what's dubiously counterintuitive about the obvious is good fun for a little while.  Then it gets boring.

fuzzynavol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #16 on: September 13, 2018, 09:59:13 PM »
So, do you mean to tell me that you're impugning the integrity of the each states EPA and the federal EPA by absurdly alleging that the United States isn't doing their part to minimize / eliminate air, water, and land pollution.

I haven't disputed any of their claims, so how could I be impugning their integrity?  The rest of the world's industrialized nations are the one who are saying we're not doing out part, since Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement. 

You must be because I surely haven't ever seen you blame all of North Africa and all of Asia for their wide spread and well documented air, water, and land pollution. Those locations are the worlds leaders in air, water, and land pollution.

What do you care?  It's not affecting the planet or its climate in any way, right?   

People like you want to hang this whole man made global warming conspiracy trash on the shoulders of the United States as if we are the worlds leader in air, water, and land pollution.

Actually, we're number 2 behind China in green house gas emissions.    

highVOLtage

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2018, 10:30:48 PM »
So no one has any disagreements with the actual content of the article?  You're all just content to make snarky comments about the headline?  


HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #18 on: September 14, 2018, 12:07:20 AM »
I tend not to open articles from WaPo or the NY Times given the limits on articles per month as I tend to click business articles useful for my work.


katmai

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #19 on: September 14, 2018, 01:08:09 AM »
Quote from: VolRage on Today at 01:16:37 PM

I don't believe in man made climate change but I do believe in climate change.

"Corporate polluters" in the United States. Fuzz, my degree is in Environmental Science and I've been in the Environmental business for a little over 20 years. Title V Air Permits, Minor Source Air Permits, etc.... all of which involve some air pollution plume modeling and calculating worst case air emissions (pollution). And then there is Water Pollution Prevention (NPDES) and Hazardous Waste Management. All of these activities require Permits from the state where the activities occur. There are federal regulations that all states must adhere to as minimum requirements for pollution prevention compliance and then there are the state regulations where they are allowed to be more stringent.

When submitting for a new Air Permit or making changes to the existing Permit, it must be blessed by the state which must at a minimum align with the federal pollution prevention standards or have more stringent pollution prevention standards.

When it comes to Air Permits the state / federal government even requires companies to capture emissions from aerosol cans. Crazy, I know. On top of that, most companies that have Air Permits are required to submit monthly emissions reports to their state EPA and then an annual emissions report at some point. Also, each of those facilities are subject to an unannounced inspection where the state or federal inspector will go over a companies data with a fine toothed comb because they are intently looking for any sign of impropriety so that they can fine the crap out of the company as a means to fund their state or federal agencies very existence. Talk about a financial interest.

So, do you mean to tell me that you're impugning the integrity of the each states EPA and the federal EPA by absurdly alleging that the United States isn't doing their part to minimize / eliminate air, water, and land pollution. You must be because I surely haven't ever seen you blame all of North Africa and all of Asia for their wide spread and well documented air, water, and land pollution. Those locations are the worlds leaders in air, water, and land pollution. People like you want to hang this whole man made global warming conspiracy trash on the shoulders of the United States as if we are the worlds leader in air, water, and land pollution. No we along with much of Europe are the ones that incorporated strict regulations to minimize the impact of air, water, and land pollution of our industrial businesses.

So, you state that you don't believe in man-made global warming, then go on to tout all of the measures that the US is taking to combat air, water and land pollution.  Are you saying you don't think there is any possibility that the pollution from 7 billion people can't have any impact on climate change?  Are you saying there is no benefit to our efforts to limit pollution?    If you are right, and there is no man-made impact to climate change, but the earth is going through a natural warming cycle:  Do you believe that there can be disastrous consequences from this natural warming, such as the melting of the polar caps and rising ocean levels?  Or is that all just some scare tactic?  

HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2018, 02:54:04 AM »
Interesting statistic on plastic in the oceans....

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/stemming-the-plastic-tide-10-rivers-contribute-most-of-the-plastic-in-the-oceans/


Stemming the Plastic Tide: 10 Rivers Contribute Most of the Plastic in the Oceans

SNIP:
The results, published last November in Environmental Science & Technology, show that rivers collectively dump anywhere from 0.47 million to 2.75 million metric tons of plastic into the seas every year, depending on the data used in the models. The 10 rivers that carry 93 percent of that trash are the Yangtze, Yellow, Hai, Pearl, Amur, Mekong, Indus and Ganges Delta in Asia, and the Niger and Nile in Africa. The Yangtze alone dumps up to an estimated 1.5 million metric tons of plastic waste into the Yellow Sea.

HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2018, 03:03:55 AM »
I don't think that man is doing much at all to affect climate change.

That said, I'm all for reducing pollution.
But the simple fact is that the big changes today are being effected by economics and what sources of electricity are the cheapest when adding new capacity.  And that is increasingly solar and wind.

But the Paris Treaty and similar nonsense is simply a power play to give power to a few un-elected bureaucrats and elite that they can monetize for their own gain.

Since 2011, coal in the US to produce to electricity has gone from 42.2% to 28.7%.
That number will continue to decline for the foreseeable future, and in another decade, coal will likely be below 20%.  Forget regulations - building a new coal plant today is simply uneconomic - and no new plants are on the drawing board in the US for the next decade, while plenty of retirements are in the works.

Since 2011, solar and wind has gone from 2.9% to 9.3% (solar + wind has doubled in the past 4 years).
That number will continue to increase for the foreseeable future.  Why?  Because it is now the cheapest form of new electricity capacity that can be added to the grid.  And for both wind and solar, costs continue to decrease each year - making them even more competitive each and every year.  For the past four years, 50+% of all new grid capacity has come from wind and solar.   And for planned capacity add for the next three years, solar and wind will continue to be more than 50% of all new capacity added.

So "more regulations" is nonsense.  Economics is now driving it, and wind and solar have no fuel costs and they emit no pollutants - just as nuclear and hydro do not.  Those advocating for "more regulations" today are either 1 - virtue signalling or 2- trying to monetize it for their own gain.



HK_Vol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2018, 03:08:34 AM »
If you want to complain about pollutants, bitch to Beijing and Delhi.
They're the big offenders.


http://www.aei.org/publication/chart-of-the-day-in-2017-us-had-largest-decline-in-co2-emissions-in-the-world-for-9th-time-this-century/


SNIP:
Declines in CO2 emissions in 2017 were led by the US (-0.5% and 42 million tons, see chart above). This is the ninth time in this century that the US has had the largest decline in emissions in the world. This also was the third consecutive year that emissions in the US declined, though the fall was the smallest over the last three years.


Carbon emissions from energy use from the US are the lowest since 1992, the year that the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC) came into existence.

The largest increase in carbon emissions in 2017 came from China (1.6% and 119 tons), a reversal from the past three years when the largest increases in emissions came from India. China’s emissions in 2017 were 0.3% higher than the previous peak in 2014. China has had the world’s largest increments in carbon emission every year this century except in four years – 2000 and between 2014-16. The next highest increment came from India where emissions rose by 4.4% (93.2 million tons, see chart), though lower than its 10-year average (6% p.a.).












TREX

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2018, 07:13:15 AM »
Sounds like to me we ought to quit buying from China and India till they straighten up.

Or at least the tree hugging crew ought to be protesting them.

Wonder why you dont see that?

VolRage

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2018, 08:42:28 AM »
Kat, the United States self regulates air, water, and land pollution as the result of lessons learned from our mistakes in the past. Prior to the 1960’s we’ve had tragic events on land as a result of industrial pollution such as the Love Canal. We’ve also had rivers catch fire as a result of the careless discharge of industrial pollution. Land pollution can also contaminate the water table. Regarding air, see attainment areas vs nonattainment areas all over the US. We have the cleanest air and water today since the dawn of the industrial revolution but we still pollute the earth.

CO2 seems to be the demon gas at the moment that is blamed for man made climate change but the rise and fall of temperatures throughout all of earths history does not coincide with a rise and fall of CO2. CO2 has risen and fallen on the earths surface since the dawn of time and before man’s proposed influence (see the industrial revolution). At this moment the CO2 levels are relatively low. The last time I looked CO2 accounted for 400ppm of the gases on earths surface and it’s been higher than 7000ppm 10’s of thousands of years ago. For the record, 10,000ppm is 1%. At this moment we breath about 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, and 1% other gases (mostly argon).

ATexasVol

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #25 on: September 14, 2018, 09:08:42 AM »
The rest of the world's industrialized nations are the one who are saying we're not doing out part, since Trump pulled out of the Paris Climate Agreement.
Would that be the rest of the world who would like to see our economy throttled to give them a competitive edge?   Or would that be the rest of the world that would like to see us forced to buy their carbon credits?  

steve37777

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #26 on: September 14, 2018, 10:55:46 AM »
Now you guys know Trump is the cause of everything bad in the world.....I learned this from CNN, MSNBC, plus the rest of the fake news outlets...The blind man sees it too.

highVOLtage

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Re: WaPo: Trump is colluding with hurricanes now
« Reply #27 on: September 14, 2018, 04:59:03 PM »
Why is it that progressives always view human activity as detrimental to the earth as if mankind is some kind of parasite that only does harm to this ball of mud we inhabit?
If humans really have the level of influence on the climate that some claim then should humans not be able to also affect weather and climate positively, i.e. cool the atmosphere, prevent draughts, weaken hurricanes, etc. If no, why not?

 

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