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Topic: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?

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gymvol

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #28 on: April 13, 2019, 08:57:15 AM »
Perhaps you can refer to any of my posts here that you think are somehow a "defense of the liberal left" (which is redundant anyway).  I offered some thoughts about the topic.  Perhaps you might explain how political leanings could be a factor in a calculus class.

I never had any idea which of my professors were liberal or conservative, but as I say, that was a long time ago.  

All of them, you disagreed with the articles HK posted from the start.

If you disagree with what he posted then you are defending the liberal side.

Don't you understand that or do you just disagree because your know it all ego kicks in?

If someone posted Jesus was a Jew you would find a way to argue the point.  
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton

Cincydawg

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #29 on: April 13, 2019, 09:04:37 AM »
I offered my perspective, for discussion.  If you view that as somehow a "defense of he liberal left", fine with me, I notice you cannot cite a specific example where I did that, which is understandable.

I don't believe universities are "merely indoctrination" and nothing else, for reasons stated.  The term implies there is nothing good in going to a university at all, and clearly there is, or can be.  I dislike all over generalizations.


HK_Vol

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #30 on: April 23, 2019, 08:05:07 AM »
Enough with Government loans.....

https://www.nationalreview.com/2019/04/eliminate-federal-student-loans/

An Idea for Student Loans: Get Rid of Them

SNIP:
Here is a three-part plan for something practical the federal government could do to relieve college-loan debt. Step 1: The federal government should stop making college loans itself and cease guaranteeing any such loans. Step 2: It should prohibit educational lending by federally regulated financial institutions or, if that seems too heavy-handed, require the application of ordinary credit standards in any private educational lending, treating the student himself as the main credit risk in all cases, including those of secured or unsecured loans taken out by parents or other third parties for that student’s educational expenses. And 3: It should make student-loan debt dischargeable in ordinary bankruptcy procedures.

The most likely end result of this would be the effective abolition of government- and bank-based financing of college education in all but the most narrowly defined circumstances. Good riddance. That leaves about $1.5 trillion in existing debt on the table, a very large number from which the federal government derives very little income, about 0.1 percent a year, or $1.5 billion — a fact that should enter into our calculations about whether we attempt to collect every nickel of that money or, perhaps, slowly forgive some of that debt for students who keep up with their payments and are otherwise good citizens, maybe at a rate of 2 percent of the principal a year.

It is time to shut down the Bank of Uncle Stupid.

Colleges will have two choices: Bring their tuitions down to a more reasonable rate or, if they are so inclined, work out financing arrangements of their own. This would not present too much trouble to splendidly endowed schools such as Harvard and Princeton, or to public schools with substantial resources at their disposal. A senior official of my alma mater, the University of Texas, once caused a stir by confessing — in public — that UT Austin doesn’t need to charge tuition at all but does so mainly as a population-control mechanism. The problem, he said, wasn’t money as such but the fact that the state would not let him raise admissions standards. Admittedly, UT has become a little more selective in recent years.

Cincydawg

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #31 on: April 23, 2019, 08:11:09 AM »
I'd shut down the Banks of Uncle Stupid, particularly Fannie and Freddie.

Cincydawg

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #32 on: April 23, 2019, 08:49:51 AM »
Most would agree that a person who gets a degree in engineering or STEM major from a decent or better school and has a good GPA is in good shape in terms of getting a job, and likely has experienced relatively little "propaganda" at the U.  Engineering is probably the best overall option right now.


BrownCounty

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #33 on: April 23, 2019, 09:18:55 AM »
Most would agree that a person who gets a degree in engineering or STEM major....

That's because there are certain fields of study that merit the pursuit of higher education.  These fields have ground to cover, and 120 hours to get it done.

Then for those who really have no business in college, there's the crap.  Fields of "study" which are nothing more than idle time and conjecture.  This is where the devil goes to work.  Idle time.

Cincydawg

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #34 on: April 23, 2019, 09:22:36 AM »
Ergo, it might be more correct to assert that some parts of universities are "merely indoctrination", and other parts are useful.

DunkingDan

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #35 on: April 23, 2019, 11:52:27 AM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #36 on: April 23, 2019, 02:50:58 PM »
I walked with our neighbor down to Georgia Tech campus today.  They really have made that place nice, I was last there in 1972.  It's an attractive campus especially considering its location.

DunkingDan

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #37 on: April 23, 2019, 03:43:22 PM »
I walked with our neighbor down to Georgia Tech campus today.  They really have made that place nice, I was last there in 1972.  It's an attractive campus especially considering its location.
My former BBall coach was an Asst. BBall coach there for a couple years. Very nice campus. 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #38 on: April 23, 2019, 06:35:14 PM »
Which is part of the problem.
Because the amounts that could be borrowed seems unlimited, they simply raised tuitions again and again.
Schools have now gotten into a bidding war in terms of facilities.

Some examples:

https://www.thrillist.com/travel/nation/colleges-with-the-best-perks-amenities-so-insane-you-ll-want-to-go-back-to-school

A lazy river and beach club
University of Missouri
Columbia, Missouri
Sports Illustrated named Mizzou’s rec center the best in the country -- no surprise considering the 293,000sqft gym cost $50 million to build and offers students a palm-tree-shaded lazy river with a waterfall, over 100 cardio machines, and the resort-quality “Tiger Grotto,” complete with whirlpool, sauna, and hot tub. Oh yea, there's also an "on-campus beach club" called Truman’s Pond. Dear Lord.



A private steak house
High Point University
High Point, North Carolina
Every date's a cheap one at High Point, where, in addition to the on-campus movie theater (that shows first-run features) with complimentary snacks, roaming ice cream truck, and multiple swimming pools/hot tubs dotting the pristine campus, this NC school boasts its own fancy steak house – as in "no jeans allowed" fancy – at which students indulge in a weekly, three-course meal of filet mignon, seared duck breast, etc. Yep, with their dining points.

Luxury "condo" dorms
Boston University
Boston, Massachusetts
This barely four-year-old dorm just might the swankiest apartment BU students will ever live in -- like, even after they graduate. The gleaming, 26-story glass structure offers sweeping views of the Hub, and was described by the Boston Globe as "perhaps the most opulent residence hall to ever grace the local college landscape."

Forget flip-flops and flimsy shower curtains, mini-fridges, and bunk beds, this "dorm" features private bathrooms, walk-in closets, lounges with flatscreens, a soundproof music rehearsal space, and washers/driers that alert students via computer when they're available. Good luck in the real world, kiddos.









HK_Vol

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #39 on: April 23, 2019, 11:14:34 PM »
Meanwhile, at "elite" Williams College:

https://pjmedia.com/instapundit/328626/#respond

EVER NOTICE THAT STUDENTS WHO SPEND THEIR TIME ON SJW PROTESTS TEND TO BE THE STUDENTS IN NEED OF SPENDING MORE TIME ON THEIR EDUCATION?: Consider this gobbleygook from students at Williams College protesting the potential adoption of the pro-free speech Chicago Principles:

In their rebuttal, the students, who called themselves the Coalition Against Racist Education Now, or CARE, wrote that the faculty petition “prioritizes the protection of ideas over the protection of people  [because ideas come from animals? plants?] and fails to recognize that behind every idea is a person with a particular subjectivity [what?]Our beliefs, and the consequences of our actions, are choices we make [umm, no, many consequences of our actions are unintended and unpredictable]. Any claim to the ‘protection of ideas’ that is not founded in the insurance [assurance?] of people’s safety poses a real threat — one which targets most pointedly marginalized people. An ideology of free speech absolutism that prioritizes ideas over people [again: because ideas come from animals? plants?], giving ‘deeply offensive’ language a platform at this institution, will inevitably imperil marginalized students.”

A greater threat to these students’ future than the imagined threat from having the occasional “offensive” (read: conservative?) speaker on campus is that they are going to one of the best colleges in the United States, where tuition costs almost $57k  a year plus room and board, and yet can’t competently write and edit several sentences of argument.

MORE:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2019/04/23/williams-college-rework-free-speech-policies-after-controversies

SNIP:
In their rebuttal, the students, who called themselves the Coalition Against Racist Education Now, or CARE, wrote that the faculty petition “prioritizes the protection of ideas over the protection of people and fails to recognize that behind every idea is a person with a particular subjectivity. Our beliefs, and the consequences of our actions, are choices we make. Any claim to the ‘protection of ideas’ that is not founded in the insurance of people’s safety poses a real threat -- one which targets most pointedly marginalized people. An ideology of free speech absolutism that prioritizes ideas over people, giving ‘deeply offensive’ language a platform at this institution, will inevitably imperil marginalized students.”

The student group did not respond to requests for comment. But in an opinion piece in the student newspaper, The Record, CARE representatives wrote that they had no interest in the "free speech debate." They said these issues come down to trust among students, professors and administrators. The students called the free speech argument a "discursive cover."

"For this reason, we refuse to accept the terms of this debate. Instead, let’s see the faculty petition for what it is: an institutional manifestation of a national anxiety towards a more diverse student and faculty population, not an invitation to a dialogue," they wrote. "Prejudice cannot be talked away; more 'dialogue' is not the answer. Oppression can’t be fixed with rational debate because oppression is not rational."



HK_Vol

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #40 on: April 24, 2019, 04:34:27 AM »
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=12138

The College of Natural Science at Michigan State University urged students to use the singular pronoun “they” in an early April “transgender visibility” email.

MSU’s NatSci Council on Diversity and Community authored the email obtained by Campus Reform entitled “Increasing transgender visibility on campus,” which asked students to “reflect on how visibility of minoritized groups is essential to changing our campus culture,” and provided several online resources to help improve students’ understanding.

These included links to LGBT resource centers, how to “learn about and start using the singular they,” a resource on hosting queer inclusive workshops, one dedicated to inviting “transgender and gender-diverse scientists," guides on transphobia, and more.

No science is needed to support transgender and non-binary identities,” the email stated. “It is simply a matter of affirming their experiences.”

DunkingDan

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Re: Universities - merely indoctrination camps?
« Reply #41 on: April 24, 2019, 11:02:14 AM »
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=12138

The College of Natural Science at Michigan State University urged students to use the singular pronoun “they” in an early April “transgender visibility” email.

MSU’s NatSci Council on Diversity and Community authored the email obtained by Campus Reform entitled “Increasing transgender visibility on campus,” which asked students to “reflect on how visibility of minoritized groups is essential to changing our campus culture,” and provided several online resources to help improve students’ understanding.

These included links to LGBT resource centers, how to “learn about and start using the singular they,” a resource on hosting queer inclusive workshops, one dedicated to inviting “transgender and gender-diverse scientists," guides on transphobia, and more.

No science is needed to support transgender and non-binary identities,” the email stated. “It is simply a matter of affirming their experiences.”
The world has gone mad
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

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