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Topic: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City

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HK_Vol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #14 on: November 07, 2019, 08:26:54 AM »
Cities cannot wilfully disregard Federal law.
However, I do have some sympathy with this theory.
Then Tennessee could disregard Obamacare, Roe v. Wade, and numerous other Federal laws that they find inconvenient.


Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #15 on: November 07, 2019, 08:31:18 AM »
The do not disregard Federal law, they use a loophole, as I described.

The thing about detainers is a bit less clear, but they cannot report immigration status if they don't know it.

HK_Vol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #16 on: November 07, 2019, 08:41:40 AM »
So by not asking their identity, they have no idea if they are currently holding a fugitive at large?
They don't identify them, fingerprint them, or anything else when breaking the law?

If I get arrested, I simply want to infer that I'm an illegal immigrant, and then I don't have to suffer any repercussions for my breaking of the law as they don't want to really know who I am.

It is all nonsense.  The city is wilfully disregarding Federal Law - and by doing so, creating a city of complete lawlessness, as we are now seeing.


roadvol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2019, 08:43:18 AM »
What Cincy wants to ignore is that Sanctuary cites do not honor  federal retainers from Immigration officials so they release illegals , many of whom are known criminals and repeat offenders. They endanger  American citizens by putting criminals back into the population.
I would like for Cincy to explain to victims of these criminals why the Sanctuary cities are completely legal and harming no one.

Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2019, 08:44:29 AM »
Yes, they ID them, fingerprint, them, and charge them with whatever they did, they do not ask immigration status.

They cannot report what they do not know.  It's a loophole in the law as written, as I noted.  This is why so many exist unfettered.

And of course I am not required to have proof of my immigration status on me at all times if I'm a US Citizen.  I am not even required to have a birth certificate by any law.

A person can be here legally with zero record they exist.  (That would be very rare obviously.)


Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2019, 08:45:48 AM »
Matters of legality have naught to do with what should be, or what is fair, or anything else, in many cases.  They exploit a loophole in the law.

As I noted, the issue on retainers is a bit less clear, but will be decided in the courts.

Why else would so many of these things exist unfettered?  

HK_Vol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #20 on: November 07, 2019, 08:48:21 AM »
Well, if the city or state doesn't want to cooperate with the Federal Government, I see no reason why the Federal Government would seek to cooperate with them - so withholding any funds to law enforcement in those districts would then seem to be appropriate.  No?


Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #21 on: November 07, 2019, 08:55:46 AM »
I wouldn't mind that, but I recall some court claimed that was not legal.  These really are different things, Congressionally appropriated funds for whatever, and a law they might not be breaking.

Might be better to fix the law, not that the House today would be interested.

But this is why so many of them exist.

HK_Vol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #22 on: November 07, 2019, 09:04:55 AM »
Unsurprisingly, a San Francisco liberal district-court judge ruled in San Francisco's favor.
I'd like to see what the Supreme Court would say about that.

Meanwhile, 29% of the Circuit Court are now Trump appointees - and rising.
When his latest nominees to the Ninth Circuit are confirmed, 10 of the 29 Ninth Circuit judges will be Trump appointed judges.
No wonder the Democrats are so desperate to prevent Trump from serving another five years.


gymvol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #23 on: November 07, 2019, 09:33:14 AM »
Again Cincy you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Read the law and tell us again it isn't against the law.


1907. Title 8, U.S.C. 1324(a) Offenses

Title 8, U.S.C. ยง 1324(a) defines several distinct offenses related to aliens. Subsection 1324(a)(1)(i)-(v) prohibits alien smuggling, domestic transportation of unauthorized aliens, concealing or harboring unauthorized aliens, encouraging or inducing unauthorized aliens to enter the United States, and engaging in a conspiracy or aiding and abetting any of the preceding acts. Subsection 1324(a)(2) prohibits bringing or attempting to bring unauthorized aliens to the United States in any manner whatsoever, even at a designated port of entry. Subsection 1324(a)(3).


Harboring -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iii) makes it an offense for any person who -- knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that an alien has come to, entered, or remains in the United States in violation of law, conceals harbors, or shields from detection, or attempts to conceal, harbor, or shield from detection, such alien in any place, including any building or any means of transportation.

Encouraging/Inducing -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(iv) makes it an offense for any person who -- encourages or induces an alien to come to, enter, or reside in the United States, knowing or in reckless disregard of the fact that such coming to, entry, or residence is or will be in violation of law.

Conspiracy/Aiding or Abetting -- Subsection 1324(a)(1)(A)(v) expressly makes it an offense to engage in a conspiracy to commit or aid or abet the commission of the foregoing offenses.

https://www.justice.gov/jm/criminal-resource-manual-1907-title-8-usc-1324a-offenses
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Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #24 on: November 07, 2019, 09:37:44 AM »
And of course none of that is applicable to the subject, at all.

And my explanation here is WHY these cities can exist.

gymvol

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #25 on: November 07, 2019, 10:00:09 AM »
And of course none of that is applicable to the subject, at all.

And my explanation here is WHY these cities can exist.

Just because I stop arguing with you, doesn't make you right.
If everyone is thinking alike then somebody isn't thinking.

George S. Patton

Cincydawg

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Re: Tuscon votes down being a Sanctuary City
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2019, 11:23:19 AM »
The facts are:

1.  Sanctuary cities exist.
2.  They are not being challenged legally about reporting the status of their arrestees because they don't ask the question.
3.  There is some court action on detainers, yet to be resolved.  The courts thus far have struck down any retaliation by Trump.
4.  In this country, the courts decide what is legal and not, even if we disagree.

A logical conclusion is they are operating legally on item 2, and possible on 3 as well.  If not, why do they still exist?

 

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