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Topic: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...

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fuzzynavol

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Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« on: March 12, 2018, 10:00:56 PM »
The U.S. recorded a $215 billion budget deficit in February -- its biggest in six years -- as tax revenue declined.

Fiscal income dropped to $156 billion, down 9 percent from a year earlier, while spending rose 2 percent to $371 billion, the Treasury Department said on Monday. The deficit for the fiscal year that began in October widened to $391 billion, compared with a $351 billion shortfall the same period a year earlier, according to the Treasury report.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-posts-biggest-budget-deficit-since-2012-as-tax-income-falls/ar-BBK8U7l?li=BBnb7Kz
Six years ago Obama was still digging us out of the ditch Bush drove the economy into.  Looks like President Franken's going to have to do the same thing in 2020.  

harvestalvol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2018, 10:42:01 PM »
Fuzzy Krugman,
I have to call you out. While your messiah was in office you advocated following the Krugman approach of running up huge debt and deficits as the best economic model for the US. And now that Trump is President, you have gotten religion and big deficits are now suddenly an issue?  What does your brother say?

As for Franken…..

« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 12:12:45 AM by harvestalvol »

HK_Vol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2018, 11:27:22 PM »
OK Indy,

You need to balance the budget - what are you going to do?

First, Obama doubled the debt.  So that doubles the interest payable on that debt.
Interest rates have risen recently, further increasing interest payments.

A massive majority of the deficit is run by the twin towers of Social Security and Medicare / Medicaid.  That is the third rails that remains untouched.

And to be fair, Trump is as unwilling now as Obama was then to address the elephant in the room (entitlements).

Federal Government revenues, on a 12-month rolling basis, are up 5.1% year-on-year.
So it is not a revenue problem (The Federal Government has collected over $3 Trillion in taxes over the past twelve months.

What specifically is your solution?



fuzzynavol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2018, 11:42:39 PM »
Fuzzy Krugman,
I have to call you out. While your messiah was in office you advocated following the Krugman approach of running up huge debt and deficits as the best economic model for the US. 

What's with this board?  Everyone's claiming I've said things I've never even thought, much less said.  Not sure who you're thinking of, but it wasn't me.   

Weird.  

katmai

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2018, 11:56:01 PM »
The U.S. recorded a $215 billion budget deficit in February -- its biggest in six years -- as tax revenue declined.

Fiscal income dropped to $156 billion, down 9 percent from a year earlier, while spending rose 2 percent to $371 billion, the Treasury Department said on Monday. The deficit for the fiscal year that began in October widened to $391 billion, compared with a $351 billion shortfall the same period a year earlier, according to the Treasury report.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/markets/us-posts-biggest-budget-deficit-since-2012-as-tax-income-falls/ar-BBK8U7l?li=BBnb7Kz
Six years ago Obama was still digging us out of the ditch Bush drove the economy into.  Looks like President Franken's going to have to do the same thing in 2020.  
Don't act like Obama was a savior on the budget.  Deficits were starting to climb the last couple of years as the costs of the ACA were finally starting to take kick in.  Trump's tax cuts and budget proposals are accelerating the increase in the deficit considerably, and we will soon be back to trillion dollar annual deficits.  There is more than enough blame to go around on this problem, because nobody wants to make a difficult decision, and are too concerned about re-election. 
You would think an outsider might break that cycle, but Trump has proven to be worse than anyone on that count.  I don't know of any President that has ever announced their re-election bid before the mid-term elections.

ATexasVol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #5 on: March 13, 2018, 12:30:17 AM »
OK Indy,

You need to balance the budget - what are you going to do?

First, Obama doubled the debt.  So that doubles the interest payable on that debt.
Interest rates have risen recently, further increasing interest payments.

A massive majority of the deficit is run by the twin towers of Social Security and Medicare / Medicaid.  That is the third rails that remains untouched.

And to be fair, Trump is as unwilling now as Obama was then to address the elephant in the room (entitlements).

Federal Government revenues, on a 12-month rolling basis, are up 5.1% year-on-year.
So it is not a revenue problem (The Federal Government has collected over $3 Trillion in taxes over the past twelve months.

What specifically is your solution?



It didn't help that Obama presided over the first ever downgrade of our national debt.   Now that was fundamental change.  And fuzzy's solution?  He's already articulated it: cut defense spending, reduce the number of members in the House of Representatives, and raise taxes. 
« Last Edit: March 13, 2018, 12:40:00 AM by ATexasVol »

fuzzynavol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #6 on: March 13, 2018, 09:01:49 AM »
And fuzzy's solution?  He's already articulated it: cut defense spending, reduce the number of members in the House of Representatives, and raise taxes on the wealthy to pay for universal health care.  





fuzzynavol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #7 on: March 13, 2018, 09:11:27 AM »
Katman - always nice to see you slither out from under your rock.

Don't act like Obama was a savior on the budget.
 
It's not an act, and all he did was save the Republic from a Depression.

There is more than enough blame to go around on this problem, because nobody wants to make a difficult decision, and are too concerned about re-election.
 
Correct.  I'm just trying to point out the hypocritical empty populist rhetoric we've heard from the right for the past 40 years in hopes of lessening some of their arrogant, partisan rancor.  

The right's postulations are correct about the federal bureaucracy having evolved into its own living organism seeking to preserve and expand (just like any other organism).  Money does that to things.  It's good that they harp away on that problem.  It's just too bad that they're such ineffective, self-serving, exploitative hypocrites when it comes to actually addressing it.  
 
You would think an outsider might break that cycle, but Trump has proven to be worse than anyone on that count.  

We should have elected Bernie Sanders.


harvestalvol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #8 on: March 13, 2018, 09:40:05 PM »



harvestalvol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2018, 12:29:50 AM »
What's with this board?  Everyone's claiming I've said things I've never even thought, much less said.  Not sure who you're thinking of, but it wasn't me.   

Weird. 


katmai

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2018, 12:39:11 AM »
OK Indy,

You need to balance the budget - what are you going to do?

First, Obama doubled the debt.  So that doubles the interest payable on that debt.
Interest rates have risen recently, further increasing interest payments.

A massive majority of the deficit is run by the twin towers of Social Security and Medicare / Medicaid.  That is the third rails that remains untouched.

And to be fair, Trump is as unwilling now as Obama was then to address the elephant in the room (entitlements).

Federal Government revenues, on a 12-month rolling basis, are up 5.1% year-on-year.
So it is not a revenue problem (The Federal Government has collected over $3 Trillion in taxes over the past twelve months.

What specifically is your solution?
I noticed your post isn't offering any solutions, although you did mention raising the retirement age in a different thread.  I'm sorry, but if you have $21 trillion in debt, you have a spending AND a revenue problem.
I agree that we need to raise the retirement age.  I think the Simpson-Bowles recommendation of raising the age to 69 by 2075 is a good starting point, but that was based upon 2010 calculations and other changes that weren't implemented, so I don't know if that would be sufficient now.  I also think we need to means test benefits.
The biggest need is to address the runaway health care costs.  If we brought our health care spending in line with the rest of the western world, we would be reducing costs by 40%.  That is a savings of $400 billion annually that the federal government is spending on Medicare and Medicaid.  That paradigm shift is going to be painful for a lot of people, but our current system is unsustainable, and the sooner we address it, the better.  Listening to ideas from both sides, its very apparent they don't have the stomach to tackle this problem.  The Republican ideas (increased insurance competition, tort reform), are fine, and can be implemented, but I think they will have a marginal affect on overall costs.  I don't have the solution on how to significantly cut costs, but I don't see how it can be done with a major change in our reimbursement and delivery system for health care.  That is going to make doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals unhappy, and ultimately that will negatively impact the access and quality of our care.  No one wants to admit that, but we simply can't afford to keep spending what we do on health care.
I also question why Trump came in with a big increase in defense spending without really evaluating the military budget and what the money is being spent on.  I get the feeling it was a knee jerk reaction to cuts under Obama, and he wanted to be seen as strong on defense.  Perhaps the increases were necessary, but I would be shocked if the Trump administration did any serious evaluation of their spending, like they did for every other department.
Finally, I would roll back the individual tax cuts that were just passed, leaving in the corporate tax cuts.  Personally, I don't mind having the extra money.  However, there is no way that economic growth is going to offset the lost revenue.  Now (with low unemployment and a relatively healthy economy) is not the time to be taking costly stimulus actions such as tax cuts and large deficit spending.  It really isn't needed in the economy right now.
Nothing I suggested would be popular, but unfortunately, we have reached that point.  It is what is necessary to address our debt.  Now if you don't think that debt is a problem, we can just have free health care for everyone and eliminate the income tax.  That way, both Democrats and Republicans can be happy (at least for a little while).  

What are your suggestions?  Remember, we have to eliminate a $600 billion dollar deficit before we can even start addressing the total debt.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2018, 12:40:58 AM by katmai »

ATexasVol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2018, 12:56:50 AM »

fuzzynavol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2018, 09:14:05 AM »
Good post @katmai

I also think we need to means test benefits.

Typical liberal wants to punish success.   (note to Roady - that was sarcasm)

The biggest need is to address the runaway health care costs.
 
Yes.

If we brought our health care spending in line with the rest of the western world, we would be reducing costs by 40%.
 
Yes.
 
Listening to ideas from both sides, its very apparent they don't have the stomach to tackle this problem.
 
Oops - you just went off the rails.  The Bernie Sanders wing of the Democratic Party has the stomach.  

The Republican ideas (increased insurance competition, tort reform), are fine, and can be implemented, but I think they will have a marginal affect on overall costs.
 
Yes, but they effectively kick the can down the road another 10-20 years, which is all they really want to do.

I don't have the solution on how to significantly cut costs
 
I'd start by taking a look at how successful countries are doing it.

but I don't see how it can be done with a major change in our reimbursement and delivery system for health care.
 
Universal (single payer) healthcare is the only option.  

That is going to make doctors, hospitals and pharmaceuticals unhappy
 
Yes.

and ultimately that will negatively impact the access and quality of our care.

Why?  

No one wants to admit that, but we simply can't afford to keep spending what we do on health care.

Democrats have been saying that since the early 90's.  

I also question why Trump came in with a big increase in defense spending without really evaluating the military budget and what the money is being spent on.
 
You are the biggest Lilly-livered, bed-wetting, America-hating liberal on this board!

I get the feeling it was a knee jerk reaction to cuts under Obama, and he wanted to be seen as strong on defense.
 
Of course.

Perhaps the increases were necessary
 
Oh, please.

but I would be shocked if the Trump administration did any serious evaluation of their spending, like they did for every other department.

Serious evaluation of every other department?  Please.  Did you see the 60 Minutes Devos interview?
 
Finally, I would roll back the individual tax cuts that were just passed
 
Good.

leaving in the corporate tax cuts.

Worried about the private jet and oil companies are you?  

Personally, I don't mind having the extra money.  However, there is no way that economic growth is going to offset the lost revenue.
 
Why do you hate America?    (note to Roady - that was sarcasm)

Nothing I suggested would be popular, but unfortunately, we have reached that point.
 
It's all popular with Democrats.  You should run for office.  Maybe you'd be more comfortable running for the Green Party.

Now if you don't think that debt is a problem, we can just have free health care for everyone and eliminate the income tax.
 
Along with a 300% sales tax?  Brilliant!   (note to Roady - that was sarcasm)


Kingsvol

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Re: Trump tax cuts already paying big dividends...
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2018, 03:30:53 PM »
First and foremost spending is the problem. Not revenue. Revenue is not the right word as it should be referred to as confiscations.  The government is not providing any measurable service to use the term revenue.

The reason spending is the problem is because the government is involved in activities they have no authorized right to be in.  So that makes the cuts easy to fix.  First no department of education.  No department of transportation. No department of agriculture. No department of health and etc.  cut all those and sell the buildings they occupy and we would have money.

Also stop all social security and Medicare and Medicaid systems.  Okay phase it out for those people not to have planned for their own retirement and future costs be it housing, health care or etc.

Problem solved

Next we should stop printing money.  You want to see costs decrease then adopt a policy of deflation until we have equilibrium of the money supply.  See the reason inflation cause prices to rise is because it fools the system that we have an adequate capacity of production or excess inventory to meet the money flow in the system. Since we are pumping extra money into the system prices can do nothing but rise because of the lack of capacity to produce enough to keep prices level.  Basically demand increase and supply can’t keep up.

This is solution to our problems of spending and rising costs (not just in health care but across all industries)

You are welcome. 

 

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