header pic

Area51 Board (non-moderated) at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' Scout-Tennessee a51 Crowd- Enjoy ROWDY discussion covering politics, religion, current events, and all things under the sun

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?

 (Read 1696 times)

DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27148
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #70 on: November 27, 2020, 03:18:47 PM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43002
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #71 on: November 27, 2020, 04:09:20 PM »
I think it's safe to say that whether it's Canaan, the flood, passover, modern-day hurricanes, etc, you are among those who will rationalize any of the killing at the hands of God as justified, so I don't see any reason to continue this discussion.
Well, he has a bit of a point if children killed went to Heaven, whereas had they reached some age of discernment, they would have been corrupted and not gone to Heaven.

By that logic, we should cheer the killing of the unborn and born children before they reach that age if the alternative is assured sin and no salvation.


DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27148
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #72 on: November 27, 2020, 04:10:09 PM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Volbrigade/oU

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 1524
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #73 on: November 27, 2020, 04:54:31 PM »

I like that.  A lot.

“The mindset of secular people” is a wasteland of vague, unproductive, conformist, echo-chamber, undifferentiated and interchangeable Whateverist insipidity of virtually no value whatsoever. 

And, to quote from one of the few — I think “last” would be a more apt word — places where humor resides:  “…is just boring as beans…” (1:15).


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zCDvOsdL9Q


And you’re right, Zen.  Further discussion is not only futile, but counter-productive.  One of the downsides of smaller internet communities is that there is a tendency to say the same ol’ things to the same ol’ folks.  Which leads to familiarity.  And we all know what that breeds…

I say the following for my own amusement.  And, I suppose, as a form of public self-confession.

I have had two distinct, clear warnings in the past few days about what Christians call “spiritual pride”.  This can occur as a result of prolonged intercourse (heh- couldn’t resist using that word, with precision) with worldlings who are completely ignorant of doctrinal truth, and seriously malinformed with regard to science, and pretty much everything else.

It can lead to a very dangerous attitude of superiority toward them; with feelings of contempt creeping in — perhaps not wholly uninvited.

This is a working of the Evil One, whose tactics are insidious.  Many a Christian has been led to produce great harm, in their zeal for the Word.  Christ warned the Ephesians, in the first of His seven letters (Rev.), that while they were sound on doctrine, they had abandoned their first love:  Him.

And as followers of Christ, we must remember He had nothing but love and compassion for the those lost in sin; and whose thinking was darkened and futile as a result.

One of the convicting experiences I had in this regard was a study of the book of Jonah.  I think even most (older) Whateverists are familiar with at least the bare bones of the story.

Jonah is instructed by God to go to Ninevah, the great city of Israel’s enemies, the Assyrians, and warn them of His impending judgment, unless they repented of their wicked ways. 

Jonah refused to go (until God had a little “come to Jesus” meeting with Him). He hated the Ninevites, and wanted to see God express His judgment/wrath against them.  He did not want to see them shown mercy.

How often do, we, as Christians, indulge a (admittedly, often well-deserved) hatred toward those of a rebellious, anti-God mindset? 

But that is a function of the “old man”, the “old nature”.  And not the new birth into the spiritual life of Christ, with its “renewal of the mind”.

I’m obviously writing mostly to myself here.  But also for whatever benefit it may be to anyone who happens to be reading along.

As the article I was reading puts it:

“How often do we manifest hatred towards sinners (especially in the political realm), who desperately need God’s message of grace, life, and truth?”

Dan — got your PM.  Will respond shortly.  Took all my message board time writing this…. ( ^ ;

 


« Last Edit: November 27, 2020, 07:47:56 PM by Volbrigade/oU »

ZenMode

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #74 on: November 28, 2020, 09:41:25 AM »
Well, he has a bit of a point if children killed went to Heaven, whereas had they reached some age of discernment, they would have been corrupted and not gone to Heaven.

By that logic, we should cheer the killing of the unborn and born children before they reach that age if the alternative is assured sin and no salvation.
"children killed went to Heaven"

Another example of rationalizing. 

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43002
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #75 on: November 28, 2020, 09:52:58 AM »
"children killed went to Heaven"

Another example of rationalizing.

Maybe, it could be true, I don't know.  It's an oft asked question, I think, and that is the usual answer.  It gets vague about when the dividing line would be, as the outcome appears to be binary in nature.

ZenMode

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #76 on: November 28, 2020, 10:06:53 AM »
Maybe, it could be true, I don't know.  It's an oft asked question, I think, and that is the usual answer.  It gets vague about when the dividing line would be, as the outcome appears to be binary in nature.
As far as whether or not God violated his own commandment, I'm not sure how much it matters where the people he killed end up. 

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43002
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #77 on: November 28, 2020, 10:17:37 AM »
If you substitute "murder" for "kill", I might argue God could not possibly murder anyone.

ZenMode

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #78 on: November 28, 2020, 10:24:00 AM »
If you substitute "murder" for "kill", I might argue God could not possibly murder anyone.
You believe that, in flooding the entire earth or wiping out an entire city, there was not one unjustified killing?  Not one innocent child?  Not one good adult? 

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43002
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #79 on: November 28, 2020, 10:28:19 AM »
You believe that, in flooding the entire earth or wiping out an entire city, there was not one unjustified killing?  Not one innocent child?  Not one good adult?
I don't believe it, but viewing it Biblically, we're told that all have sinned, no one is good but the Father.

There are OT men described as being "just" or "righteous".  But if no one is "good" and sinless, we're all guilty, and the Creator who is Perfect could not commit murder by definition.  I don't know if Noah would be an exception or not really.  I get informed that either the translation is bad, or it means something else, or I need to study it deeply, to understand the differences.


Noah was a righteous man, the only blameless person living on earth at the time, and he walked in close fellowship with God.


DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27148
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #80 on: November 28, 2020, 10:37:38 AM »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

ZenMode

  • Starter
  • *****
  • Posts: 1336
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #81 on: November 28, 2020, 10:54:13 AM »
I don't believe it, but viewing it Biblically, we're told that all have sinned, no one is good but the Father.

There are OT men described as being "just" or "righteous".  But if no one is "good" and sinless, we're all guilty, and the Creator who is Perfect could not commit murder by definition.  I don't know if Noah would be an exception or not really.  I get informed that either the translation is bad, or it means something else, or I need to study it deeply, to understand the differences.


Noah was a righteous man, the only blameless person living on earth at the time, and he walked in close fellowship with God.


You're right. In the Bible, most everyone is expendable.  I guess I have a higher standard for justified killing than God. 

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 43002
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #82 on: November 28, 2020, 10:56:26 AM »
You're right. In the Bible, most everyone is expendable.  I guess I have a higher standard for justified killing than God.
If you view God as Perfect, whatever He does is perfect, even if it doesn't make sense to us, right?  

There are plenty of actions advocated by God in the OT that many of us today would view as reprehensible, but we're not God of course.  The Israelites tended to slay captured peoples at God's behest.  We modern humans tend not to do that today.

DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 27148
  • Liked:
Re: Thou Shall Not Kill: Does God Violate His Own Commandment?
« Reply #83 on: November 28, 2020, 11:00:10 AM »

Quote
I don't see any reason to continue this discussion.



President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

Support the Site!
Purchase of every item listed here DIRECTLY supports the site.