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Topic: The stock market

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HK_Vol

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #252 on: March 15, 2020, 09:30:16 PM »
I've decided to hold off buying anything at present.

You only see volatility like this in bear markets, not bull markets.
But I think what is new is that the algos are now driving the markets, and we didn't really see that before.  The crash in 1987 was driven that way (portfolio insurance), but only for a couple of days if I recall.  We didn't see multiple weeks of gaps up and down like this on the opening.

I was on the trading desk when the crash happened in 1987 - it was absolutely wild.  Some good stories...

Cincydawg

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #253 on: March 16, 2020, 07:54:42 AM »
I recall 1987, you had to call your broker back then to place orders.  Few could get through.  My boss did and bought a ton of stock near the bottom and made out.

I stopped at an ATM on the way home and made a max withdrawal thinking the banking system might fail.  And of course I bought all the toilet paper I could find at Kroger.  I still have some, see?

katmai

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #254 on: March 16, 2020, 03:40:55 PM »
Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I am watching Trump's news conference right now, with a stock ticker in the lower right corner.  Every time he speaks, it looks like it drops a little further.  I think it has dropped an additional 2% since the press conference started.  I am surprised Fox News is showing both at the same time.  

highVOLtage

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #255 on: March 16, 2020, 05:09:00 PM »

Cincydawg

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #256 on: March 16, 2020, 05:23:43 PM »
Perhaps it's just a coincidence, but I am watching Trump's news conference right now, with a stock ticker in the lower right corner.  Every time he speaks, it looks like it drops a little further.  I think it has dropped an additional 2% since the press conference started.  I am surprised Fox News is showing both at the same time. 
I think what he said was rather "bracing" and the realism of it hit sellers full in the face.  This isn't over yet, I suspect.

mcwterps1

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #257 on: March 16, 2020, 06:44:10 PM »
I think what he said was rather "bracing" and the realism of it hit sellers full in the face.  This isn't over yet, I suspect.
Yes.


Obviously, I'm no fan, but was surprised by how calm he was, especially when pressed about responsibility.
« Last Edit: March 16, 2020, 06:55:29 PM by mcwterps1 »

HK_Vol

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #258 on: March 17, 2020, 02:44:19 AM »
I'd say this is bad optics.....

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/boeing-which-repurchased-over-100bn-stock-downgraded-bbb-seeks-short-term-bailout

Boeing, Which Repurchased Over $100BN In Stock, Is Downgraded To BBB, Seeks "Short-Term" Bailout

SNIP:
Because it's called capitalism, and because there is no reason why taxpayers should foot the bill for a company which instead of saving cash when times were good, was handing it out to shareholders and a handful of executives, and which should now for some insane reason be eligible for a bailout when times suddenly go bad.

No: force Boeing - and others like it that spent billions repurchasing its stock while incurring massive amounts of debt - to sell its stock. After all that's what a public company's stock is - a currency - and just as Boeing could repurchase it when it had cash, and lifted its stock price to all time highs, it should now sell its stock and use the proceeds to fund itself, like any other corporation does when it needs funding. Last time we checked, Boeing's market cap was $73 billion, and it certainly afford to drop much more as the company now does the buyback in reverse.

This is also a warning to Congress and the White House: if chronic stock repurchasers such as Boeing, are bailed out instead of ordered to find their own sources of liquidity, there will be a mutiny in America and rightfully so, because it was Boeing's shareholders that got rich on the way up, and now it is somehow up to taxpayers to make sure the company, loaded up with record amounts of debt used to fund buybacks, survives one more quarter.

That, in a word, is bullshit.





mcwterps1

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #259 on: March 17, 2020, 03:26:09 AM »
I'd say this is bad optics.....

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/boeing-which-repurchased-over-100bn-stock-downgraded-bbb-seeks-short-term-bailout

Boeing, Which Repurchased Over $100BN In Stock, Is Downgraded To BBB, Seeks "Short-Term" Bailout

SNIP:
Because it's called capitalism, and because there is no reason why taxpayers should foot the bill for a company which instead of saving cash when times were good, was handing it out to shareholders and a handful of executives, and which should now for some insane reason be eligible for a bailout when times suddenly go bad.

No: force Boeing - and others like it that spent billions repurchasing its stock while incurring massive amounts of debt - to sell its stock. After all that's what a public company's stock is - a currency - and just as Boeing could repurchase it when it had cash, and lifted its stock price to all time highs, it should now sell its stock and use the proceeds to fund itself, like any other corporation does when it needs funding. Last time we checked, Boeing's market cap was $73 billion, and it certainly afford to drop much more as the company now does the buyback in reverse.

This is also a warning to Congress and the White House: if chronic stock repurchasers such as Boeing, are bailed out instead of ordered to find their own sources of liquidity, there will be a mutiny in America and rightfully so, because it was Boeing's shareholders that got rich on the way up, and now it is somehow up to taxpayers to make sure the company, loaded up with record amounts of debt used to fund buybacks, survives one more quarter.

That, in a word, is bullshit.
They're not the only ones.

This all started with that BS tax break for the rich. You know it. 

HK_Vol

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #260 on: March 17, 2020, 04:05:27 AM »
Which tax break is that?

All I know is that dividends are taxed, but share buybacks are not.
And buybacks reduce the share count, which increases the value of the remaining shares.
Which is a boon to CEOs and other top executives who are awarded share options.

Share buybacks and dividends should be taxed at the same rate.
In Hong Kong, dividends have no tax on them as that money has already been taxed at the corporate level.  Any additional taxation is nothing but double taxation.  That is why Sub-Chapter S Corporations and LLCs are so popular as they avoid this double taxation - as do REITs and Mortgage REITs.

The tax code does indeed encourage share buybacks rather than dividends.  This should change.

DunkingDan

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #261 on: March 17, 2020, 09:51:19 AM »
They're not the only ones.

This all started with that BS tax break for the rich. You know it.
I'm not rich and I got a nice raise due to the tax cuts. Opposed to seeing less and less money each year under Obama
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

mcwterps1

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #262 on: March 17, 2020, 10:55:39 AM »
I'm not rich and I got a nice raise due to the tax cuts. Opposed to seeing less and less money each year under Obama
Aaaaaaand, Bullshit. 



Cincydawg

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #263 on: March 17, 2020, 11:02:22 AM »
I think he's saying he saw higher taxes/lower take home pay under Obama, which is possible if he is in a high income bracket.




Cincydawg

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #264 on: March 17, 2020, 11:04:29 AM »
The cut in corporate tax rates did encourage more stock buy backs, I surmise in part because companies did not see a more appealing investment option.

The increases in Federal income taxes under Obama were at the higher income levels and didn't really hit most of us.  The main thing with the Trump tax cut, I think, on individuals was the greatly expanded personal exemption.

Drew4UTk

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Re: The stock market
« Reply #265 on: March 17, 2020, 11:10:05 AM »
Aaaaaaand, Bullshit.



what is bull shit about dan's statement? 

i agree... completely... as i'm going to guess he was speaking of payroll taxes and not stocks. 

i lost a 'cafeteria plan' supplement valued at $5.5k to spend on health insurance through the company, and the company lost the ability under the AHCA to offer it.... and, they pulled the $5.5k altogether.... though the VA covers me, my family won't be without insurance, so.. i sought out and purchased a family plan @ $9k and with a STUPID deductible.. but what otherwise approximated the prior coverage... i don't know how you do math, but I lost $5.5k annually, just to pay an additional $8.5k annually, and instead of $20 deductibles they were some insanity deductibles which basically meant "if you don't need stitches, you don't need a doctor".  

obama, other than military actions, was the first president to actually impact my (and my family's) quality of life.... and he did so in a very negative way and with empty promises such as 'you can keep your doctor....blah blah blah.'.. 

meanwhile, i had less capital to invest, which forced a move to using 401's and ROTHs.  Buying stocks, for me, is a 90's and early 2k's thing.  when economy's improved, that $5.5k never came back.  imagine that?  

...... standing by to hear how stupid i am and how smart you are... 3...2...1...

 

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