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Topic: The decline and fall of San Francisco

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Cincydawg

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #28 on: August 07, 2020, 01:24:09 PM »
I've been to SD a few times, what I saw of it was pretty nice.  Miami is not my favorite place to visit, at all, mostly the weather I guess, and the people.

I saw three fleet carriers docked in SD when we were there and wondered how the citizenry would feel if they realized that meant there were six nuclear reactors sitting a couple miles across the bay from downtown.

roadvol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #29 on: August 07, 2020, 01:25:19 PM »
I'm not emabarrassed at all and you shouldn't be either.
You're simply speaking what you really think....that no one is responsible for their actions.....it's someone else's fault.
All one has to do is read your previous post.


roadvol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #30 on: August 07, 2020, 01:28:36 PM »
BTW...
I really get a chuckle at everytime you put your foot in your mouth you come out with this grand proclaimation of how you have embarrassed me or some other poster who see's thru your BS.
It's amazing how delusional you can be .

HK_Vol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #31 on: August 07, 2020, 06:44:47 PM »
The real problem was addressed in the video.  Those with mental health issues and drug addiction cannot be taken off the streets.  Back in the 1950s and 60s, they'd be put in "insane asylums" and treated there.  But the left claimed that that was inhumane (One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest had a massive, unrecognized impact) and the populace bought in.

So rather than taking them off the streets and trying to help them and treat them - the leftist narrative is to leave them alone and give them free needles and more drugs and allow themselves to do bodily harm to themselves in numerous ways.   Personally, I don't think that this is the humane solution.  But San Francisco and their ilk (Fuzz?) insist that it is....  I haven't heard Fuzz's solution to the problem - just more of the same and to criticize conservatives - as he always does since conservatives are always wrong.


https://www.ibtimes.com/coronavirus-san-francisco-admits-giving-drugs-alcohol-homeless-addicts-during-2971778

SNIP:
The San Francisco Department of Public Health (SFDPH) admits that it is giving free drugs and alcohol to homeless addicts who are in quarantine at city-sponsored hotels. It's apparently part of the city’s strategy to ensure that COVID-19 positive homeless addicts remain indoors and won't spread the virus in public.

The city's health department confirmed that they have been giving these highly addictive substances in a Twitter reply to a former homeless addict, Thomas Wolf, who said that they are enabling those in quarantine.

"These harm reduction-based practices, which are not unique to San Francisco, and are not paid for with taxpayer money, help guests successfully complete isolation and quarantine and have significant individual and public health benefits in the COVID-19 pandemic," the SFDPH Twitter account posted.

fuzzynavol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #32 on: August 07, 2020, 07:55:18 PM »
Those with mental health issues and drug addiction cannot be taken off the streets. 

Okay, so you're definitely saying they "cannot be taken off the streets."  Got it.

So rather than taking them off the streets and trying to help them and treat them
 
Okay, so you've definitely changed your mind and you're now saying they actually CAN be taken off the streets.  Got it.

That was quick!

- the leftist narrative is to leave them alone and give them free needles and more drugs and allow themselves to do bodily harm to themselves in numerous ways.  Personally, I don't think that this is the humane solution.  But San Francisco and their ilk (Fuzz?) insist that it is....

I only answer for the Fuzzy narrative.

I haven't heard Fuzz's solution to the problem
 
My objective is to get people like you to stop distorting the reality of the problem, and to stop misappropriating the blame for it.

just more of the same and to criticize conservatives
 
I'm sure you'd rather be allowed to get away with your dishonesty unscathed.  

as he always does since conservatives are always wrong.

You're not wrong about BLM.  Sorry that dog wont hunt.  

You're wrong if you think city government policies are more to blame than wealth disparity, and you're wrong to blame anyone but corporate America for that.  


KingKongGodzilla

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #33 on: August 07, 2020, 08:07:48 PM »
Most homeless drug addicts live below the poverty threshold. Still curious how you connect the wealth gap/disparity to becoming a homeless drug addict.

If you don't see how homeless drug addicts who live below the poverty threshold are connected to wealth gap/disparity, then I'm afraid I can't help you. 

You can't expand on your comment the wealth gap is responsible for drug addicts? It was a simple question asking for clarification.

fuzzynavol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #34 on: August 07, 2020, 08:18:35 PM »
You can't expand on your comment the wealth gap is responsible for drug addicts? It was a simple question asking for clarification.
I said it was connected to, not responsible for.  Sorry to have to hold you accountable for being honest.  

I can't imagine what you could find unclear about that, but it does call for a little common sense.  The more prosperous you are, the more you have to lose and the less likely you are end up addicted to drugs and homeless (since you're also more likely to have family members with the means to either take you in or put you in rehab).  




HK_Vol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #35 on: August 07, 2020, 08:30:36 PM »
Those with mental health issues and drug addiction cannot be taken off the streets.

Okay, so you're definitely saying they "cannot be taken off the streets."  Got it.


You misunderstand, apologies if I wasn't clear.  In many cases, it is illegal to take them off the streets "against their will".  Which means that they remain on the streets untreated and a danger to themselves and to others.  That is the obvious solution - to take those that are mentally ill off the streets, but the left won't allow it and there are laws against it.


https://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/blogs/stateline/2019/09/11/gravely-disabled-homeless-forced-into-mental-health-care-in-more-states

SNIP:

Often, when she got high on meth, “Melanie,” who suffers from schizophrenia, would strip naked and run screaming straight into San Francisco traffic. Invariably, police would bring her to the hospital, where she’d undergo treatment. There, her psychotic symptoms would quickly subside.

But by law, Melanie, who is homeless, couldn’t be held for longer than 72 hours without her consent, so back on the street she would go. Until she relapsed, and her drug use triggered yet another psychotic episode, and she ended up in the emergency room all over again. And each time, she got a little worse.

Legally, she couldn’t be helped,” said Angelica Almeida, director of the forensic and justice involved behavioral health services at the San Francisco Department of Public Health.

......cities and states are taking a fresh look at involuntary commitment, said Lisa Dailey, legislative and policy counsel for the Treatment Advocacy Center, a nonprofit based in Arlington, Virginia, that advocates for those with severe mental illness.

But advocates for the homeless and for civil rights are pushing back against those laws, arguing that confining people against their will violates their civil rights. They also worry that facilities won’t have enough room for the additional patients, and that the laws will disproportionately affect minorities.

Roughly a third of the U.S. homeless population has an untreated, serious mental illness — such as schizophrenia, schizoaffective disorder, bipolar disorder or major depression — according to a 2016 report by the Treatment Advocacy Center. Among homeless people with severe mental illness, who are often victims of predators, the mortality rate is as much as nine times higher than the general population, the report found.

KingKongGodzilla

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #36 on: August 07, 2020, 08:40:04 PM »
I said it was connected to, not responsible for.  Sorry to have to hold you accountable for being honest. 

I can't imagine what you could find unclear about that, but it does call for a little common sense.  The more prosperous you are, the more you have to lose and the less likely you are end up addicted to drugs and homeless (since you're also more likely to have family members with the means to either take you in or put you in rehab). 

Trying to understand, nothing more. You have an opinion about the cause of homeless drug addicts. Fair enough, but you have not provided any evidence to support that claim.
But, you shouldn't attempt to mislead by claiming you didn't make the comment "the primary basic problem [for homeless drug addicts] is wealth inequality." You did. Very different than saying it was "connected".



KingKongGodzilla

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Re: Nice try...
« Reply #37 on: August 07, 2020, 08:43:32 PM »
I bet you especially loved the woman towards the end of the video confidently proclaiming that, "it's not money, it's policy - if money could have solved this problem then we would have solved it a long time ago." 

What a joke.  I'm sure you're eager to believe that, but it's absolutely absurd (as if homeless people would be better off with homes, and readier access to quality drug rehabilitation).  That's what this kind of propaganda is really all about - misapplying the blame.

Conservatives want to blame "liberal policy," and there are certainly flaws there.  But the basic primary problem is wealth inequality, and that's not a function of city government policy, it's a national problem caused by corporate America. 

But by all means, keep blaming those black city mayors.  Because, after all, they're Democrats, right? 

A record of what you have written because you seem to need help remembering your words.

fuzzynavol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #38 on: August 07, 2020, 09:32:08 PM »
Trying to understand, nothing more. You have an opinion about the cause of homeless drug addicts. Fair enough, but you have not provided any evidence to support that claim.
But, you shouldn't attempt to mislead by claiming you didn't make the comment "the primary basic problem [for homeless drug addicts] is wealth inequality." You did. Very different than saying it was "connected".
This was the most recent exchange in the conversation as it advanced:

Most homeless drug addicts live below the poverty threshold. Still curious how you connect the wealth gap/disparity to becoming a homeless drug addict.

If you don't see how homeless drug addicts who live below the poverty threshold are connected to wealth gap/disparity, then I'm afraid I can't help you.

You brought up and first used the word "connected," not me.  Most tend to move forward during conversations, and rely on the most recent contributions while doing so.  

I've explained why they are connected, and stand by the opinion that wealth disparity is far more to blame than liberal city policy for the homeless population.  If the vast majority of the wealth created in the US since 1980 wasn't concentrated in less than 1% of the populations' hands in a macro sense, then we wouldn't be seeing what we're seeing in San Francisco in a micro sense.  

If the growth in wealth had been dispersed equitably, along with universal government funded healthcare, the national debt would be $0 and you could vacation in the Tenderloin District.  

HK_Vol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #39 on: August 07, 2020, 09:36:57 PM »
Well, most mentally ill people and most drug addicts cannot either get a job or hold a job.
Thus, they're likely to be very poor.
Cart and horse.
Their illness caused their poverty - it wasn't that poverty caused their illness in a massive majority of cases.

DunkingDan

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #40 on: August 07, 2020, 09:38:59 PM »
I have to deal with the reality of mental health laws and insurance due to one of my sister-in-law s. It is a nightmare.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

fuzzynavol

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Re: The decline and fall of San Francisco
« Reply #41 on: August 07, 2020, 09:42:59 PM »
Well, most mentally ill people and most drug addicts cannot either get a job or hold a job.  Thus, they're likely to be very poor.  Cart and horse.

That's true they're more likely to be poor after they've become drug addicted and homeless, but they are also more likely to be poor BEFORE they become drug addicted and homeless.  

Their illness caused their poverty
 
True.

it wasn't that poverty caused their illness in a massive majority of cases.

It contributed to the likelihood.  Do you really dispute that?  Do you really think that socio-economic status has no bearing on predicting drug-addicted homelessness?  REALLY?

To call it "the" cause mischaracterizes my position.    

 

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