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Topic: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS

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DunkingDan

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No transitions between starfish larva
« Reply #14 on: April 26, 2018, 05:28:07 PM »
Biologists are now examining the relationships between developmental stages of organisms in order to attempt to determine evolutionary relationships. However, what they have found "is that, unexpectedly, there is no incremental progression from one developmental type to another." The reason proposed is "that it is more difficult for complex larval structures to be gained than lost during evolution." This rather startling revelation from evolutionists, if it is found to apply to all organisms, would overthrow the entirety of evolutionary theory. In the current study, the authors propose that developmental modes should more often go from complex, feeding larval forms to morphologically simpler, non-feeding types. The authors indicate that the "early developmental patterns are evolutionarily labile" They ask the question, "If early developmental events are not evolutionarily sacrosanct, are there any rules at all for the evolution of developmental systems?" They conclude that evolution of larva is not linear, but modular - a sort of punctuated evolutionary scenario. As usual, when evolutionists fail to find evolutionary relationships between obviously related organisms, they evoke a non-linear evolutionary mechanism. (Palumbi, S.R. 1997. Evolutionary biology: A star is born. Nature 390: 556-557)
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS
« Reply #15 on: April 26, 2018, 07:27:27 PM »
There are many uncertainties regarding the creation of the universe, so let's just default to the theory put forth by the Bible:


DunkingDan

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Complex Protein Biogenesis Hints at Intelligent Design
« Reply #16 on: April 26, 2018, 07:58:37 PM »
While growing up, I had a friend named Tom who had an unusual older brother named Tim. Back then, Tom and I really looked up to Tim. Maybe that’s why whenever I think of my friend Tom, I can’t help but also think about Tim. Tom and Tim have become inseparable in my mind.
TOM and TIM are also inseparable when it comes to the biogenesis of mitochondria. In this process, TOM and TIM aren’t brothers, but large protein complexes found in the outer and inner membranes of mitochondria. TOM (translocase of the outer membrane) and TIM (translocase of the inner membrane) function as biomolecular machines that operate in tandem to import newly made proteins into mitochondria.
The inseparability of TOM and TIM represents a significant challenge to the endosymbiont hypothesis—a cornerstone idea in evolutionary biology that offers an explanation for the origin of organelles, such as mitochondria.
How Complex Is Protein Transport into Mitochondria?
The similarity between organelles and bacteria serves as the chief line of evidence for the endosymbiont hypothesis. For example, mitochondria—thought to have descended from α-proteobacteria—are about the same size and shape as a typical bacterium and have a double membrane structure similar to gram-negative microbes. These organelles also divide in a way that is reminiscent of bacterial cells.
From my vantage point, similarities between mitochondria and α-proteobacteria are not enough to establish the validity of the endosymbiont hypothesis. Evolutionary biologists must also explain how mitochondria became fully integrated into the host cell’s metabolic systems. Even though biochemists are figuring out how the process of protein transport works, they must also identify a plausible evolutionary pathway that can adequately account for the evolution of this biochemical operation.
Except for select proteins, most mitochondrial proteins are made in the cytosol of the cell and transported into the mitochondria. The overall process of mitochondrial protein biogenesis consists of four stages: (1) protein synthesis (2) targeting the protein to the mitochondria; (3) transporting the protein into the mitochondrial lumen; and (4) targeting the protein to its final destination in the organelle.
The cell’s machinery initially makes mitochondrial proteins as pre-proteins with a signal sequence at one of its ends (the N terminus). The signal sequence has a specialized structure (an amphipathic α-helix) that serves to target the proteins to mitochondria. Think of the signal sequence as analogous to an address label that tells the post office where to deliver a letter. Receptor proteins that are part of the TOM complex recognize the signal sequence and transport the protein through a channel within the TOM interior into the intermembrane space (the region between the mitochondrian’s inner and outer membranes). Proteins dubbed chaperones keep the mitochondrial proteins unfolded and stabilized throughout this process.
Once in the intermembrane space (the region between the outer and inner membranes), two different TIM complexes (TIM22 and TIM23) work together, taking the protein “baton” from the TOM complex and ushering the protein into the lumen (or the matrix) of the mitochondria. If the protein is to remain within the lumen (because that’s where it performs its work), then proteins called peptidases remove the signal sequence and the protein adopts its intended three-dimensional shape.
If the protein is to be incorporated into the inner membrane, it possesses an additional targeting sequence that is recognized by another protein complex dubbed OXA. This biomolecular ensemble inserts the protein into the inner membrane.
If the protein is to carry out its work in the intermembrane space, then the OXA complex will transport the protein back across the inner membrane. Alternatively, some proteins destined to operate in the inner membrane space possess a stop signal sequence. These sequences prevent the TIM22 and TIM23 complexes from transporting it across the inner membrane into the lumen. Instead, peptidases in the intermembrane space remove the signal sequence, allowing the protein to adopt its operational structure.
Finally, if the protein is to be incorporated into the outer membrane, then another complex referred to as SAM inserts it into the outer membrane.
The Challenge to the Endosymbiont Hypothesis
Each stage of mitochondrial protein biogenesis involves multiple steps with each one carried out by an ensemble of proteins. Moreover, each step of the process must be precisely integrated with the other steps. If not, the entire process of mitochondrial protein biogenesis fails. To put it another way, each step of the process involves an irreducibly complex biochemical apparatus which, in turn, integrate with each other to form the irreducibly complex process of mitochondrial protein biogenesis. That is, mitochondrial protein biogenesis can be characterized as an integrated, hierarchal, multilayered ensemble of irreducibly complex systems.
For the mitochondrial protein biogenesis to emerge from an evolutionary standpoint, a number of biochemical systems had to simultaneously evolve and become integrated with one another. For example, once mitochondrial genes became incorporated into the host genome, DNA sequences specifying signal sequences had to evolve and become precisely appended to every one of the mitochondrial DNA sequences. The TOM, TIM22, and TIM23 complexes had to evolve simultaneously to recognize mitochondrial proteins and work in tandem to move proteins into the mitochondria. In addition, chaperones had to emerge that would recognize mitochondrial proteins and keep them unfolded during the transport process. Signal peptidases had to evolve to remove signal sequences from mitochondrial proteins with exacting precision. Finally, stop sequences and additional targeting sequences had to evolve and become precisely positioned within the mitochondrial protein genes.
In effect, no one knows how mitochondrial protein biogenesis could have evolved. According to cell biologist Franklin Harold, “The origin of the machinery for protein import is more complicated and is subject to much debate.”1 Harold also states, “Most of the transferred genes continue to support mitochondrial functions, having somehow acquired the targeting sequences that allow their protein products to be recognized by TOM and TIM and imported into the organelle.”2 To say that “the origin of the machinery for protein import” is a “complicated” system that “somehow” evolved is not a scientific explanation for how this complex biochemical system arose. In the absence of a plausible evolutionary route for mitochondrial protein transport, it is reasonable to be skeptical of the endosymbiont hypothesis.
A Creation Model Perspective on the Origin of Mitochondria
While evolutionary biologists view the similarities between mitochondria and α-proteobacteria as evidence for the endosymbiont hypothesis, it is possible to view these similarities from a creation model vantage point as shared design features based on an archetypal design.
As I pointed out earlier, mitochondrial genomes exhibit an exquisite biochemical logic that undergirds their structure and function, making it all the more reasonable to view these organelles as the Creator’s handiwork.Bolstering this conclusion is the multi-tiered irreducible complexity of protein mitochondrial biogenesis. As I discussed in The Cell’s Design, irreducible complexity is a hallmark feature of many human designs and should be viewed as an indicator of intelligent design.
Endnotes
         
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Recent origin of American Indian populations.
« Reply #17 on: April 30, 2018, 11:24:17 AM »
The analysis of HLA One of the variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.allele frequencies (HLA-DRB1 Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles) in various American Indian populations suggests that these Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles may have been generated since the colonization of the Americas (about 20-30,000 years ago). It was originally thought that  human DRB1 Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles are "ancient", that is, predate the divergence of the hominoids (4-7 myr). Recent analyses of DRB1 A noncoding sequence of DNA that is initially copied into RNA but is cut out of the final RNA transcript.intron The order of nucleotides in a DNA or RNA molecule, or the order of amino acids in a protein molecule.sequences indicate that the Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles within a lineage (> 90% of the DRB1 Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles) have arisen relatively recently. (Erlich HA, Mack SJ, Bergstrom T, Gyllensten UB. 1997. HLA class II Variant forms of a gene at a particular locus, or location, on a chromosome.alleles in Amerindian populations: implications for the evolution of HLA A common variation in the sequence of DNA among individuals of a species or race.polymorphism and the colonization of the Americas. Hereditas 19-24.)
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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record

Fossil evidence indicates that ancient bacteria, Archea (Archaebacteria) have existed on the earth for at least 3.5 billion years (1). A  study published in January, 1996 examined the origin of life through molecular evolution of " An organic compound made of amino acids arranged in a linear chain, joined together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of the adjacent amino acid residues.protein clocks" (2). A total of 531 The order of nucleotides in a DNA or RNA molecule, or the order of amino acids in a protein molecule.sequences of the genes of 57 metabolic enzymes from 15 phylogenetic groups were plotted based upon the known divergence dates in the fossil record. The seven divergence points of these phyla were plotted verses the time of divergence, resulting in a straight line (r = 0.94, where r = 1.0 is a perfect fit). The line indicated the origin of life occurred ~1.5 billion years ago, even though there is definitive evidence for life at 3.5 billion years ago. Drs. Mooers and Redfield attempted to explain the discrepancy with various alternatives (3). They suggested that the molecular evidence may be misleading. However, to reconcile the data, much of molecular biology would have to be discarded. They also suggested that the fossils chosen for use in the Doolittle et al. study may have been misdated. They discounted this possibility, since the fossil record of these creatures has been confirmed by numerous investigators in numerous studies. They suggested that there might have been a slower rate of A group of 20 different kinds of small molecules that link together in long chains to form proteins. Often referred to as the "building blocks" of proteins.amino acid Replacement of one nucleotide in a DNA sequence by another nucleotide or replacement of one amino acid in a protein by another amino acid.substitution in early life forms. However, these creatures, being bacteria, have generation times of minutes, compared to later creatures, which have generation times of days to years. They concluded, "This idea has no basis in theory." Mooers and Redfield then suggested that the results might be explained by multiple Replacement of one nucleotide in a DNA sequence by another nucleotide or replacement of one amino acid in a protein by another amino acid.substitutions at the same site, thus underestimating divergence times. However, Doolittle et al. tested departure from the standard model and found that this had little effect upon divergence times. The model, in fact, predicts a divergence between the plants and the animals/fungi at one billion years ago, which many scientists would think was too long ago. The only conclusion Mooers and Redfield could come up with was that present day Archea are examples of convergent evolution and are not directly descended from the ancient Archea. They propose the original Archea arose, diversified, died and arose again two billion years later. The alternative theory, that God, the Creator, does not necessarily work through a An organic compound made of amino acids arranged in a linear chain, joined together by peptide bonds between the carboxyl and amino groups of the adjacent amino acid residues.protein clock, was not discussed.
References

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS
« Reply #19 on: May 04, 2018, 08:50:54 AM »
I always thought Noah was really smart to make the door of the ark small enough to fit most animals, but not the dinosaurs.

DunkingDan

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Re: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS
« Reply #20 on: May 04, 2018, 12:57:08 PM »
I am just a cyber-stalking troll who wants to try and bully someone  and can't  
As in evidence in so many places you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think 

Thanks for proving so many of my points 

Look up in the sky. Its that damned bird point, flying over your head, yet again . 

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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MILLER'S EXPERIMENT
« Reply #21 on: May 06, 2018, 02:51:06 PM »
Evolutionists often quote Miller's Experiment as evidence of the correctness of their claim that life formed by chance in primordial earth conditions. However, the experiment, which was carried out some 50 years ago, has lost its scientific implication due to the discoveries that followed.
American chemist Stanley Miller conducted an experiment in 1953 to support the scenario of molecular evolution. Miller assumed that the primordial earth atmosphere was composed of methane, ammonia, and hydrogen gases. He combined these gases in an experiment set-up and gave electricity to the mixture. Almost a week later, he observed that some amino acids formed in this mixtue.
This discovery aroused great excitement among evolutionists. In the next twenty years, some evolutionists, such as Sydney Fox and Cyril Ponnamperuma, attempted to develop Miller's scenario.
The discoveries made in the 1970's repudiated these evolutionist attempts known as "primordial atmosphere experiments". It was revealed that the "methane-ammonia based primordial atmosphere model" Miller proposed and other evolutionists accepted was absolutely fallacious. Miller chose these gases on purpose, because they were very convenient for the formation of amino acids. Scientific discoveries, on the other hand, showed that the primordial atmosphere was composed of nitrogen, carbon dioxide and water vapour. (1) This atmosphere model was by no means suitable for the formation of amino acids. Moreover, it was understood that a great amount of oxygen naturally occurred in the primordial atmosphere. (2) This, too, invalidated the scenario of the evolutionists, because free oxygen would obviously decompose amino acids.
PRIMORDIAL ATMOSPHERE MISCONCEPTION
Miller claimed that he strictly reproduced the primordial atmosphere conditions in his experiment. However, the gases Miller used in his experiment were not even remotely comparable to the real primordial earth conditions. Moreover, Miller had interfered in the experiment with purposeful mechanisms. In fact, with this experiment, he himself refuted the evolutionist claims that amino acids could have formed spontaneously in natural conditions.
FOX'S UNSUCCESSFUL EXPERIMENT
Inspired by Miller's scenario, evolutionists conducted different experiments in the years that followed. Sydney Fox produced the molecules seen in the picture, "proteinoids" as he called them, by combining some amino acids. These useless amino acid chains had nothing to do with real proteins that constitute the bodies of living things. Actually, all these efforts not only showed that life did not come about by coincidence, but also that it could not be reproduced in laboratory conditions.
As a result of these discoveries, the scientific community acknowledged in the 1980's that Miller's Experiment and other "primordial atmosphere experiments" that followed it have no meaning at all. After a long silence, Miller also confessed that the atmosphere medium he used was unrealistic. (3)
What's more, this whole fuss was simply about "amino acid formation". Even if amino acids had formed, it is impossible for these simple organic molecules to give rise to extremely complex structures such as proteins by chance and produce a living cell which even mankind is unable to reproduce in laboratories today.
The fifty years that have passed since Miller's time have only served to further display the despair the theory of evolution faces at the molecular level.
MILLER'S ASSUMPTIONS
REAL CONDITIONS
WHY IS THE EXPERIMENT INVALID?
He used methane, ammonia, and water vapour in the experiment.
Primitive earth contained carbon dioxide and nitrogen instead of methane and ammonia.
Ferris and Chen from the USA repeated the experiment with the gases that existed at that time. Not even one amino acid was obtained.
He assumed oxygen to be non-existent in the primitive atmosphere.
Findings show that there was a huge amount of free oxygen in the primitive atmosphere.
With such an amount of free oxygen available, the amino acids would have broken down, even if they could have been formed.
There was a special mechanism set up to synthesize the amino acids in the experiment. This mechanism, called the "Cold Trap", isolated the amino acids from the environment as soon as they were formed and preserved them.
It was impossible for these kinds of mechanisms to have existed in nature. Under natural conditions, amino acids are exposed to all kinds of external destructive factors.
If the mechanism known as the "Cold Trap" had not existed, the spark source and other chemicals released during the experiment would have destroyed the amino acids.
 
References:
(1) J. P. Ferris, C. T. Chen, "Photochemistry of Methane, Nitrogen, and Water Mixture As a Model for the Atmosphere of the Primitive Earth", Journal of American Chemical Society, Vol 97:11, 1975, p. 2964.
 (2) "New Evidence on Evolution of Early Atmosphere and Life", Bulletin of the American Meteorological Society, Vol 63, November 1982, p. 1328-1330
 (3) "Life's Crucible", Earth, February 1998, p. 34
 

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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 on proposed evolutionary schemes

Current evolutionary schemes hypothesize that photosynthesis arose first in prokaryotes (using the photosynthetic pigment bacteriochlorophyll). Other widely accepted theories rest on this hypothesis (i.e., the theory that eukaryotic chloroplasts arose from endosymbionts of these early prokaryotes). However, recent genetic evidence analyzing the One of the structural components, or building blocks, of DNA and RNA. A nucleotide consists of a base plus a molecule of sugar and one of phosphate.nucleotide The order of nucleotides in a DNA or RNA molecule, or the order of amino acids in a protein molecule.sequence of bacteriochlorophyll and chlorophyll suggests that eukaryotic chlorophyll could have appeared prior to bacteriochlorophyll (Lockhart, P.J., A.W.D. Larkum, M.A. Steel, P.J. Waddell, and D. Penny. 1996. Evolution of chlorophyll and bacteriochlorophyll: the problem of invariant sites in The order of nucleotides in a DNA or RNA molecule, or the order of amino acids in a protein molecule.sequence analysis. Proc. Natl. Acad. Sci. USA 93: 1930-1934.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Studies using Drosophila (fruit flies) have demonstrated a series of homeobox (Hox) genes, which control limb development during embriogenesis. Variants of these same genes are found in other animals that develop limbs. In tetrapods, the developing limb skews from the main axis of the limb, runs from the ulna through the ulnare triquetrum and then bends anteriorly through the distal carpals However, in primitive fish (teleosts) the developing limb does not bend anteriorly, and is truncated. This development is a paradox, since the mammalian Hox genes contain the same number of clusters, containing the same set of genes (Muragaki, Y., S. Mundlos, J. Upton, and B.R. Olsen. 1996. Altered growth and branching patterns in the synpolydactyly caused by Permanent structural alterations in DNA, consisting of either substitutions, insertions or deletions of nucleotide bases.mutations in HOXD13. Science 272: 548-551)
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

P1tchBlack

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Re: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS
« Reply #24 on: May 20, 2018, 01:54:12 AM »
So, you don't believe in evolution at all?

Oh, wait....do think I'm bullying you?

DunkingDan

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Re: THE CREATION OF THE UNIVERSE FROM NOTHIGNESS
« Reply #25 on: May 20, 2018, 10:28:02 AM »
I am just a cyber-stalking troll who wants to try and bully someone  and can't 
As in evidence in so many places you have eyes and do not see, ears and do not hear and a brain and do not think 

Thanks for proving so many of my points 

Look up in the sky. Its that damned bird point, flying over your head, yet again . 

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

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