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Topic: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan

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fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #14 on: March 25, 2018, 04:14:22 PM »
the majority of the time i don't respond is because of time and time alone- which i don't have a lot free to use.
 
Yet you have time to pen these endless screeds.

i'll admit, though, often i won't respond because the conversation has chose a direction- usually left, then another left
 
So only the left concerns itself with racism?  The right doesn't care?  But you, yourself, criticized it in your last post.  

then yet another left entering turn four and start over... talking in circles without going anywhere is about goofy.

There's no need for it to go in circles.  Someone makes an allegation, backs it up with evidence, then you debate the validity of the evidence.  

dog whistle is often used in your posts
 
Because it's often used by conservative republicans.

'without outright saying it' is disingenuous though.
 
People do not only communicate directly and literally.

the concept of dog whistle is that only dogs can hear it - meaning something racist in this case is said and only a racist will hear it...
 
Okay, I see - you're confused on the definition of dog whistle racism.  We all hear it, including blacks an non-racist whites.  Dog whistle racism is plausibly deniable racist speech.  Example:  "These south-Chicago thugs are destroying America, etc...."  Now, you see that kind of thing in this forum all the time, and it's obvious who the poster is talking about and what color they are.  But if you accuse them of injecting race into the conversation in any way, and they'll absolutely deny it.  After all, who said anything about blacks, right?

funny thing, also in this practice- is racists ARE the only one's to hear it... hence, the left is always 'hearing things' that aren't being said at all.  when you concede that, we can have a conversation about it.  

I can't concede a falsehood.  

insofar as assigning what value you use to define racism, i've no clue- but i will stand by my assertion that you (as well as many many others) entwine racism with cultural differences and with intent to make a fight out of something that doesn't deserve it.
 
That surely happens from the left from time to time.  If you ever think you've caught me doing it, then by all means bring it up at the time.  Generalized, unsupported accusations such as this cannot be defended, since you're not pointing to a specific incident.  

what i 'think' your definition of racism is, is conflating culture and lifestyle with oft typical racial profiles of those groups.  

Okay, so give me an example of something I've said that would justify that accusation and we can start a conversation.  

and conflating culture with race.
 
Again, that's a good point and I get frustrated with the left doing that, too.  Let me know if/when you ever think I'm doing it, and we'll see.

you're holding onto the leftist position is no better or worse than many of us conservatives holding out beliefs - and ALL of our convictions are much the same, though we choose to argue the differences.

Great point.  All dogma is bad.  Political.  Economic.  Religious.  All of it.  

Drew4UTk

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #15 on: March 25, 2018, 04:48:45 PM »
the fracture here is over dog whistle? 

we've, as an entire society, constructed barriers that can't be breached w/o offending someone.  If I chose to comment about women not having near the upper body strength as men, some woman somewhere will point out that i'm being misogamist by either pointing out a difference where men are superior or by even suggesting men are superior at anything- and this is the basis of argument concerning females in combat... a serious discussion can't be had for emotional reaction which isn't likely emotional at all, but feigning emotional reaction in effort to gain the upper hand.  

some will argue about blacks in the NBA being disproportionate to whites and wonder why their isn't some sort of required affirmation synthetically controlling that... All the while black kids identify with professional athletes and strive to a greater significance to be that, and disproportionately succeeding compared to white kids..... of interest, they 'identify' more because there was a time that merit/skill overshadowed even social barriers.... which goes back to some institution somewhere saying "I'd rather win championships with a black on the team or even the whole team than lose lily white".   there was a reckoning there that precedes your and my life and likely our understanding because we weren't there to experience it.  Similar argument can be used with race of kids in Ivy League schools or even jobs and roles played out as individual lives unfold... there is a catalyst and a reason- and in some instances (such as pro sports) it has basis in racism- but certainly not always.  that is actually an exception. 

and with that^ is the point i'm trying to make:  we call things racist, misogamist, bigoted, non-inclusive or narrow minded, when in truth it is rarely any of those things except possibly the narrow minded part... they are used (curiously, and you brought it up) as tactics of debate- in effort to gain a position the person you're debating has to defeat before even getting to the subject and in hopes to ensnare them in subjects they're not prepared to discuss with intent to cause additional presentation of logical fallacy- undermining them as a whole, until hands are thrown in the air out of frustration.  

and to my "endless screeds" (screed- I can't say that i've ever heard anyone real use that term and i'm only familiar with it from reading)  - i have time today to delight you with my wisdom.  don't treat it as detritus, eh? 

VolRage

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #16 on: March 25, 2018, 05:14:41 PM »
Fuzz, the march is about banning ALL semi-automatic weapons. The AR is just being used to pivot towards the ultimate goal which the abolition of the 2nd Amendment. That is the end goal of your puppet masters but you and your son are just too naive to recognize it in your haste to stop gun violence. I love the phrase your kings and queens use, “common sense gun laws”. As if the left even has common sense. 

fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #17 on: March 25, 2018, 05:15:44 PM »

we've, as an entire society, constructed barriers that can't be breached w/o offending someone.
 
True - look at how none of the righties on this board are unwilling to watch the Oscars.

If I chose to comment about women not having near the upper body strength as men, some woman somewhere will point out that i'm being misogamist by either pointing out a difference where men are superior or by even suggesting men are superior at anything- and this is the basis of argument concerning females in combat... a serious discussion can't be had for emotional reaction which isn't likely emotional at all, but feigning emotional reaction in effort to gain the upper hand.

Are you debating me, or railing against misguided, regressive leftists?   

and with that^ is the point i'm trying to make:  we call things racist, misogamist, bigoted, non-inclusive or narrow minded, when in truth it is rarely any of those things except possibly the narrow minded part...
 
I agree that political correctness is a huge problem, and both sides are guilty of it.  It's why I have to criticize religion in anonymous chatrooms, but it's verboten in the public square.

they are used (curiously, and you brought it up) as tactics of debate- in effort to gain a position the person you're debating has to defeat before even getting to the subject and in hopes to ensnare them in subjects they're not prepared to discuss with intent to cause additional presentation of logical fallacy - undermining them as a whole, until hands are thrown in the air out of frustration.

If this is meant as a roundabout way to say that I levy false allegations of racism, then again, you'll have to point out specific examples so I can defend myself properly.   

and to my "endless screeds" (screed- I can't say that i've ever heard anyone real use that term and i'm only familiar with it from reading)
 
You can be a little "wordy."

- i have time today to delight you with my wisdom.  don't treat it as detritus, eh?

I had to look that word up.

Well played.  

fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #18 on: March 25, 2018, 05:20:11 PM »
Fuzz, the march is about banning ALL semi-automatic weapons.
 
And expanded background checks.  If you can't understand the difference between banning semi-automatic weapons and repealing the 2nd Amendment, then you need to go back to elementary school and start over.

The AR is just being used to pivot towards the ultimate goal which the abolition of the 2nd Amendment.
 
That kind of slippery-slope paranoia could be used to oppose any law.  "You just want to put a 70 mph speed limit on the interstate because your ultimate goal is to confiscate all our cars."

That is the end goal of your puppet masters but you and your son are just too naive to recognize it in your haste to stop gun violence.
 
What a dishonorable goal - stopping gun violence.  

I love the phrase your kings and queens use, “common sense gun laws”. As if the left even has common sense.

At least the left can differentiate between gun control and gun abolition.  

VolRage

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #19 on: March 25, 2018, 05:35:59 PM »
Expanding backgrounds. How about all of the information is already available. Federal entities have simply failed to communicate. How hard is that for you on the left to comprehend. What else do you Loons want on a background that isn’t already there? Do you want all people diagnosed with PTSD to be denied their right to a gun? Where exactly is the line drawn on what is considered mental and what’s not?

Fuzz, if you had an ounce of intellectual integrity you’d admit the end game is the abolition of the 2nd Amendment. Or maybe I’m right and you’re too naive to know it.

For 1000th time. The 2nd Amendment was written not just for single shot rifles and pistols or even for just hunting. It was written so that Americans have the ability to arm ourselves well just in case the government became tyrannical. So that we could fight them and win. How can we do that if you idiots on the Left push to ban the very weapons it would take to win. You lunatics on the Left are piss poor students of history or idiots. It’s one or the other.

fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #20 on: March 25, 2018, 10:29:54 PM »
Where exactly is the line drawn on what is considered mental and what’s not?

If your point is that no regulation or control is going to completely eliminate gun violence, then it's a stupid one, but it's obviously correct.  

Fuzz, if you had an ounce of intellectual integrity you’d admit the end game is the abolition of the 2nd Amendment.
 
I am opposed to abolishing in the 2nd Amendment.  I don't know how to say it any plainer than that.  

It was written so that Americans have the ability to arm ourselves well just in case the government became tyrannical.
 
Then you better start pushing for legalized nukes, because the government has them.

Just make sure you're comfortable with the idea of Islamic jihadists eager to martyr themselves having nukes, too.

So that we could fight them and win.
 
Back to reality, you guys would have no chance against the government if it "became tyrannical."  Is that what you'd sit in the living room of a family who's child was gunned down in school?  "Sorry, but I'm afraid your child was collateral damage.  We've got to be prepared in case the government becomes tyrannical."  

How can we do that if you idiots on the Left push to ban the very weapons it would take to win.
 
An insurrection against the government wouldn't be like a shootout at the OK Corral.  

You lunatics on the Left are piss poor students of history or idiots.
 
You lunatics on the right have been watching too many John Wayne movies.  



VolRage

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #21 on: March 25, 2018, 10:57:10 PM »
Fuzz, maybe you’re not aware that the majority of the military vote Republican. Maybe you’re not aware that a large portion of them would fight against the very government they serve if it became tyrannical. Maybe you don’t know that because you’ve never served this nation. Anyone in the military can reject a command if it’s not constitutional. They aren’t pawns for the liberal agenda like your wet dreams think they are.

harvestalvol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #22 on: March 26, 2018, 01:12:53 AM »

fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #23 on: March 26, 2018, 07:38:32 AM »
Fuzz, maybe you’re not aware that the majority of the military vote Republican. Maybe you’re not aware that a large portion of them would fight against the very government they serve if it became tyrannical.
 
Oh, that's good news!  So it turns out civilians don't need their guns after all.  Why didn't you say so earlier?  So does that mean you favor abolition?  

If so, I can debate you on that, because there are actually good reasons that I think people should be allowed to own guns that have nothing to do with tyranny.


VolRage

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #24 on: March 26, 2018, 08:20:32 AM »
Sure Fuzz, if that’s your take. You go with that but for a rational person, they would comprehend what I actually said.

Drew4UTk

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #25 on: March 26, 2018, 08:37:42 AM »
a friend of mine, former Marine and now State Police, has a daughter that is all grown up now... She made her father (and her fathers friend) happy in that she studied well and is a small business owner- selling guns.  She has all licensing and appropriations, and a storefront that is doing well for itself... 

she made a facebook post sometime back- in the direct wake of the Florida nightclub shooting, that made a lot of sense.  She re-posted it recently.  

She told a tale of a weird dude coming in to the store she worked for at the time, and attempting to purchase three AR-15's.  He was asking questions about how many magazines he could purchase, body armor, and ammunition he could buy before it had to be reported to the police.  She informed him the ammo wasn't the concern but the purchase of the rifles was- which he smirked saying "my woman will buy the rifles"- and the (then) owner of the store imposed himself in the conversation at that point (sniffing illegal transaction- you can't 'buy' for someone else).  It seems the paperwork he had already began filling out didn't have any signatures present, and he intended for some lady to show up and sign. 

Having the paperwork with information and following legal procedure for had just happened, they reported it to both the state and the feds... along with the paperwork for 'waiting period' for a handgun purchase he had already filed. 

the waiting period came and went, and nothing was ever said.  At this point, the store has to release the weapon to the buyer- but remember the buyer never signed the paperwork for the rifles.  He never paid, either.  But if he had? He'd be the proud new owner of three AR-15's, a case of magazines, and a few cases of ammo.  The 'legalities' of the sale had been satisfied IF he had signed. 

a month or so passes.  Next thing you know, the weirdo returns, walking in the door with three brand new AR-15's under his arm and looking to have optics purchased and installed.  They accommodated him, but only after alerting both the state and the feds once again that "this is strange, something isn't right about this guy".

several months pass and all the sudden their phones light up with both federal agents and state agents inquiring about this fella.  they came by and interviewed everyone working at the store. they collected all the paperwork and film from the cameras... it turns out this guy was a convicted felon and wanted for additional crimes committed after leaving the big house and while on probation.  they wouldn't inform them of 'why' they were after him, but they were damn sure serious about finding him.  All employees were briefed and left with a photo and private numbers directly to the investigators.  

point being from her perspective:  the laws that are in place, if used properly, would have busted this guys ass with a quickness.  instead, the laws that already exist would have allowed the 'wait' imposed by their state to expire- which means the guy could have walked out of there armed regardless of his history.  If it weren't for an assertive and aware gun store owner (and his clerk at the time), this is precisely what would have happened.  and no 'new' law would do anything the 'old' laws didn't or wouldn't.  Databases are already in place (where convicted criminals are concerned) that would/should have nipped this in the bud right off the bat- 

the incompetence of the government is the primary issue here.  enforcing existing laws is not happening, yet they want new ones?  

when it's demonstrated they are 'serious' about curbing known felons and criminals from purchasing weapons, then they can tell me (a law abiding citizen) what i can and can't purchase and why.......... until then, they aren't getting my defense against lawlessness.  

and one more point about the armed forces/gov vs citizens:  yeah, IF the armed forced turned against citizens of this country for some strange reason, they would prevail within minutes.  this isn't the concern.  the concern is when gov fails (and that is inevitable, and obvious as the left apparently prefers chaos/anarchy over a freely and fairly elected President) that we (citizens) will be able to defend ourselves against the ensuing lawlessness and banditry.  I, personally, stand a great chance against most bandits- I stand little against well armed and provisioned forces. 


 

fuzzynavol

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #26 on: March 26, 2018, 09:10:37 AM »

point being from her perspective:  the laws that are in place, if used properly, would have busted this guys ass with a quickness.
 
I get that as a conservative Christian, you are by-defintion anti-science.  However, I'll still remind you that definitive conclusions can't be drawn from a sample size of one.  

Of course there are breakdowns in enforcement.  That doesn't mean we don't strive to continue to fine-tune and improve upon our current laws in order to prevent as much tragedy as we can.  

The conservative (NRA) position on gun control regulation (including background checks) is literally that everything is perfect just the way it is (just enforce better). 

That is plainly wrong.  

Databases are already in place (where convicted criminals are concerned) that would/should have nipped this in the bud

Republicans oppose "sharing" database information between government agencies, as well as newly proposed "red flag" legislation to keep guns out of dangerous people's hands that isn't necessarily tied to criminal convictions.  

the incompetence of the government is the primary issue here.
 
That's the primary diversion for the fringe of people under the influence of the NRA who want to shut down conversation by wrongly insisting that current laws are perfect and can't be improved upon.

enforcing existing laws is not happening
 
So hold law enforcement accountable just like they do with unjustified shootings.

yet they want new ones?

Yes, and that kind of arrogant paternalism is another reason that the vast majority of Americans favor additional gun control, including Republicans. 

when it's demonstrated they are 'serious' about curbing known felons and criminals from purchasing weapons, then they can tell me (a law abiding citizen) what i can and can't purchase and why.......... until then, they aren't getting my defense against lawlessness.  

More arrogant paternalism?  I was hoping you were through.  

and one more point about the armed forces/gov vs citizens:  yeah, IF the armed forced turned against citizens of this country for some strange reason, they would prevail within minutes.
 
Ha!  Told ya Ragey!

the concern is when gov fails (and that is inevitable, and obvious as the left apparently prefers chaos/anarchy over a freely and fairly elected President)
 
What?

that we (citizens) will be able to defend ourselves against the ensuing lawlessness and banditry.
 
Realistically, the only way our society ever devolves into anarchy where you have to worry about lawlessness and banditry is if the wealth gap ever gets beyond the breaking point.  So you should take a hard look at supporting the only party that concerns itself with that problem.  The Democrats.



 

DunkingDan

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Re: The 20 Worst Quotes From Louis Farrakhan
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2018, 09:56:57 AM »

Fuzzy ignores the fact that there are already over 40,000 gun laws on the books and that criminals ignore them. He ignores most criminals already buy their guns on the black market and that more and more guns are coming across our open borders. He ignores other things as well such as this. First thing is look at all the laws, see which ones are working and which ones are not and get rid of those. Second we need to look and see what has changed from a few years ago and discuss if we need to try and change back to what was working. Next we need to get rid of gun free zones they are nothing but killing fields. We should encourage teachers, like many use to, to carry to protect the students - take the classes and be certified, reward those that do. Then think logically after all that is done to see what else needs to be done if anything. Key word is logic. Guns are but a tool, As a note of all the people I see screaming for gun control all favor abortion and most have no clue as to what an assault weapon is, they base their views from the media which have been anything but honest, thus failing in their responsibility to the American People. We also need to realize what the purpose of the 2nd amendment is, its not hunting and sport shooting.

 You might read it and think about this exert from a speech from a few years back. 
 
 So we believe in zero tolerance for anyone illegally buying guns for juveniles.
 
  
  We encourage the vigilance of everyone to keep illegal guns out of the hands of minors. But more importantly, of the thousands of criminals who bought guns for juveniles, we believe the Clinton Administration should have prosecuted more than just 5 in 1997 and 6 in 1998. That's not zero tolerance.
  
  We believe gang bangers caught carrying guns shouldn't be let go just because they're under 18.
  So we support mandatory penalties for juvenile criminals caught carrying guns. But out of the thousands of these armed teen thugs, we believe the Clinton Justice Department should have prosecuted more than just 3 in 1997 and 8 in 1998. That's not zero tolerance.

  
  We believe that even if violent juvenile felons get a second chance at going straight, they should never get a second chance at owning a gun. Some call it Juvenile Brady -- we call it common sense. We support barring all juveniles convicted of violent felonies from owning guns, for life.
  
  We also believe that criminal records of violent juveniles ought to remain open indefinitely, not expunged in the middle of their crime spree. They shouldn't get a clean criminal slate to splatter with blood again just because they turn 18 or 21.
  
  We support restoring full and perpetual funding for the National Instant Check System, which was the product of this Association's determined effort. It is a federal crime for a felon to try to buy a gun. So for the quarter million prohibited buyers President Clinton claims were turned away, we believe his Justice Department should have prosecuted more than zero in 1996, zero in 1997 and zero in 1998. That's surely not zero tolerance.
  
  We believe that people adjudicated mentally incompetent should be prevented from buying guns. That's the law. But it can't be enforced because those records are often sealed. So we advocate that records of court-declared mental incompetents be unsealed and made available to the instant check system. Believe it or not, insanities like John Hinckley's would not prevent a gun purchase today because most mental records are invisible to the instant check system. Let's close the Hinckley loophole!
  
  We believe that a lawful, properly-permitted citizen who chooses to carry a concealed firearm not only deserves that right, but is a deterrent to crime. We support the right to carry because it has helped cut crime rates in all 31 states that have adopted it ... with almost no abuse of any kind by the lawful citizens who took the courses, submitted to the background checks, passed the tests and became part of a proud citizens movement that's making America a safer place to live. The truth is, very few actually choose to carry a gun -- but the bad guys don't know which few they are.
  
  We believe freedom should never be diminished for those who abide by the law. On the contrary, freedom should be diminished only for those who break the law. That is the principle upon which we stand opposed to waiting period proposals and one-gun-a-month schemes.
  
  We support reversing the Clinton Administration policy of not prosecuting felons with guns. We advocate national adoption of Project Exile, a zero-tolerance project that began in Richmond, Virginia, but can't seem to get the support of President Clinton's Justice Department. Any felon caught with a gun, no matter what he's doing, goes to jail for 5 years, period.  


President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

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