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Topic: So the world is safer, huh?

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katmai

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #28 on: January 07, 2020, 10:30:16 AM »
I would argue less than before.
They now know that any move they make will engender a disproportionate response.
I hardly think that any move that they make would be equivalent to perhaps the US destroying 25% of their oil export capacity in response for example....they are desperate for oil export $$$.

I suspect we will hear a lot more bluster than actual reprisals.
I think you would be right if you were talking about a normal authoritarian regime, like Venezuela.  You never know what a place like Iran will do, where the martyrdom appeal is so high.  If I was the Iranian leadership, I would do everything in my powers now to obtain nuclear weapons.   That is the great equalizer, and with a plausible threat to use it, would make even Trump hesitate before escalating a conflict with them.

Drew4UTk

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #29 on: January 07, 2020, 10:33:39 AM »
this is a purely anecdotal tale that may have relevance here. 

We were tasked with training Saudi troops in a combined arms exercise.  The training/adviser cadre consisted of five of us.  The unit we were working with were battalion size. 

they were to collect their personnel, personal weapons, were given a gear list for individuals, then crew served weapons, provisions (food, water- which consisted of a 'water bull' from the motor pool)... they were to collect the big guns, which meant they'd be needing a 5ton to move them.  they were to have these things done by CoB and we were to disembark the following morning for a three day xing evolution.  pretty simple stuff. 

the morning of movement we stood there by ourselves waiting for their arrival- and we finally went looking.  we found the entire unit at supply drawing gear.  every one of them. 

it never occurred to them to send a team to supply to draw equipment/gear for ALL of them, and another to the motor pool to get vehicles for ALL, and yet another team to the armory to collect ALL the weapons... obviously, we had to push training which upset our command. 

now here is the point:  as simple a concept as delegation of responsibility is, it is lost on them. without their leader they are lost- truly lost... they'll stand there and look at you.  we're not talking kids, we're talking grown men with an average age exceeding the average age of our own military, and we're talking professional soldiers hired by the Saudi's to do their bidding. 

OUR military is taught from day one of boot camp how command works- there have been battles in our American history where ALL the 'brass' were killed and leaving NCO's to 'lead', and they were just as effective in battle. We don't even 'need' NCO's- even the Lance Corporals, PFC's and Privates will stand up and take over- it's the way we (Americans) think. 

i don't recall where the quote originated, but it was (paraphrased) something like "take the head off the serpent and it sprouts another immediately".   this baffles the 'old' world.  they don't operate like this by and large, as simple as it sounds.  furthermore, they can't grasp 'flying by the seat of your pants'- a ranking Russian general once commented "we have every technical and training manual the US military has ever printed, but they are worthless because they never follow them". 

so my point is the Iranian's rely on a General who's been in that post a long, long time doing all kinds of ill- and... it will take them some time to recover.  that general played a central role in planning- not delegating it, but doing it himself.  if they're like the Saudi's (and i wager they are) they've been dealt quite a blow by losing this guy... and that 'guy' had come to rely on the US not doing anything but allowing them to operate with impunity.... that changed.   

highVOLtage

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2020, 11:13:37 AM »
If I was the Iranian leadership, I would do everything in my powers now to obtain nuclear weapons.

That's what they've been trying to do for quite a while now, even when they say otherwise.

MaximumSam

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2020, 12:20:50 PM »
What a mess.  So much dysfunction in our leadership.  Trump is such a weak leader, and his haphazard (lack of) leadership on this front is having predictable consequences. Somehow he has managed to strengthen Iran's grasp on Iraq and make us look like the bad guys in the process, all in one dumb stroke.

ATexasVol

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #32 on: January 07, 2020, 12:24:51 PM »
What a mess.  So much dysfunction in our leadership.  Trump is such a weak leader, and his haphazard (lack of) leadership on this front is having predictable consequences. Somehow he has managed to strengthen Iran's grasp on Iraq and make us look like the bad guys in the process, all in one dumb stroke.

Well he's not "leading from behind" like Dear Leader.   This just goes to prove that leftists don't know leadership when they see it.   Making Iran pay a consequence for attacking our embassy is leadership.   Sending pallets of cash in the middle of the night to a terrorist regime is appeasement (at best) and treason (at worst).   

highVOLtage

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #33 on: January 07, 2020, 12:36:53 PM »
What a mess.  So much dysfunction in our leadership.  Trump is such a weak leader, and his haphazard (lack of) leadership on this front is having predictable consequences. Somehow he has managed to strengthen Iran's grasp on Iraq and make us look like the bad guys in the process, all in one dumb stroke.

How exactly does terminating the leaders of Iranian shia militias operating in Iraq strengthen Iran's grasp on Iraq?

MaximumSam

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #34 on: January 07, 2020, 12:44:37 PM »
Well he's not "leading from behind" like Dear Leader.  This just goes to prove that leftists don't know leadership when they see it.  Making Iran pay a consequence for attacking our embassy is leadership.  Sending pallets of cash in the middle of the night to a terrorist regime is appeasement (at best) and treason (at worst). 
This is the problem with weak leadership.  Obama struck a diplomatic deal with Iran that was multinational in nature and allowed access to Iran as well as kept up diplomatic relationships.  Trump killed it for whatever reason, and no what do we have left?  We spent a huge amount of money, lost plenty of our good soldiers, killed plenty more people, and for what?  What do we have left.  A much stronger Iran.  The area was always a mess, we never should have gone there, but we keep having weak leaders like Bush and Trump who don't seem to know what to do except "display leadership" and waste our money and lives to no benefit.

Cincydawg

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #35 on: January 07, 2020, 01:10:10 PM »
Was Obama a strong leader?

highVOLtage

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #36 on: January 07, 2020, 01:11:30 PM »
This is the problem with weak leadership.  Obama struck a diplomatic deal with Iran that was multinational in nature and allowed access to Iran as well as kept up diplomatic relationships.

<img src="http://alwaght.com/upload/logo/2016420_16/201642022555347.jpg">

These are the kind of diplomatic "deals" that Obama made:

<img src="https://patriot.imgix.net/7276d3e0dc22e0631ce29cadd3c5a02dfde7b922838c3baa0facc93b49ecd0e0.jpg">

MaximumSam

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #37 on: January 07, 2020, 01:12:00 PM »

Drew4UTk

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #38 on: January 07, 2020, 01:12:20 PM »
That makes no sense, Sir.  We paid Iran to stop developing a nuclear weapon, and they never did.  We paid them to "leave us alone" and still, they necer did.  All we were doing was encouraging them and all they were doing was taking advantage of our weakness.  By all accounts, that weakness is over now.  

Meanwhile, as a threat. The Supreme Leader of Iran is threatening to release the names of our elected who were bribed as part of the "deal" dear leader brokered.  That ought to be fun!  It also will test the reach of the Clinton machine when/if that guy gets suicided.  

MaximumSam

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #39 on: January 07, 2020, 01:12:50 PM »
How exactly does terminating the leaders of Iranian shia militias operating in Iraq strengthen Iran's grasp on Iraq?
Iraq's first step was to ask us to leave the region. 

highVOLtage

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #40 on: January 07, 2020, 01:29:16 PM »
Iraq's first step was to ask us to leave the region.

Have we left the region?

When the top general for Iran's most elite forces was freely moving around Baghdad and coming and going at the main airport it would seem that Iran already had a pretty firm grasp on Iraq.

Cincydawg

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Re: So the world is safer, huh?
« Reply #41 on: January 07, 2020, 01:33:15 PM »
What can Iran do that they were not already doing?

Iraqis are Arabs.  Iranians are not.

 

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