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Topic: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst

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mcwterps1

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #98 on: February 27, 2020, 06:27:25 PM »
Ah, the difference between an R, and a D, and what level of BS tolerated, and how far one will go to "serve" or protect their master. 

Teflon Don can do no wrong. 


Cincydawg

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #99 on: February 27, 2020, 06:31:00 PM »
His playing golf so much annoys me, some, but then I figure he might doing other stuff instead that could be worse.

MaximumSam

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #100 on: February 27, 2020, 06:39:59 PM »
The Administration did that, as in Donald Trump himself?  Who specifically made that call?  A civil servant somewhere?
It sounds like the state department made the call after a fight between the CDC and HHS.  The punishment of the whistleblower sounds pretty familiar, though.

Cincydawg

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #101 on: February 27, 2020, 06:41:28 PM »
It sounds like?  I guess I'd have to check on the details, if available.  But competing agencies often have conflicts for obvious reasons.  And this decision was likely made at a fairly low level, perhaps not, but some civil service G16 type person perhaps.

MaximumSam

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #102 on: February 27, 2020, 06:56:31 PM »
It sounds like?  I guess I'd have to check on the details, if available.  But competing agencies often have conflicts for obvious reasons.  And this decision was likely made at a fairly low level, perhaps not, but some civil service G16 type person perhaps.
I'm fairly certain the decision to bring back people infected with coronavirus over the objection of the CDC was not a low level decision

MaximumSam

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #103 on: February 27, 2020, 07:15:39 PM »
Also reporting that CDC is supposed to "clear" any statements with Mike Pence before releasing them. That's so comforting

DunkingDan

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #104 on: February 27, 2020, 07:30:40 PM »
I'm fairly certain the decision to bring back people infected with coronavirus over the objection of the CDC was not a low level decision
Even the Washington Compost reported Trump was mad about that decision.

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #105 on: February 27, 2020, 08:13:19 PM »
I don't remember anyone blaming Obama for the King River water spill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_water_spill

I do remember heavy criticism of the EPA and the minions that made this decision.
And to add insult to injury, no one inside the EPA was punished or fired. But if this had been done by a private corporation, heads would have rolled and the EPA would have issued onerous fines.  The differences in accountability were what mattered.

Obama wasn't at fault then, Trump isn't at fault now.
But failing to condemn Trump for something that wasn't of his doing makes us mindless, brainless followers of Trump "protecting the master"?

Get real.




mcwterps1

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #106 on: February 27, 2020, 08:25:47 PM »
I don't remember anyone blaming Obama for the King River water spill.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2015_Gold_King_Mine_waste_water_spill

I do remember heavy criticism of the EPA and the minions that made this decision.
And to add insult to injury, no one inside the EPA was punished or fired. But if this had been done by a private corporation, heads would have rolled and the EPA would have issued onerous fines.  The differences in accountability were what mattered.

Obama wasn't at fault then, Trump isn't at fault now.
But failing to condemn Trump for something that wasn't of his doing makes us mindless, brainless followers of Trump "protecting the master"?

Get real.


[img width=273.429 height=333]http://thehimalayantimes.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/APTOPIX-Mine-Waste-Le_time.jpg[/img]
I thought you liked deregulation? 

Seriously, I was pissed about this. 

HK_Vol

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #107 on: February 27, 2020, 08:52:26 PM »
You mistake "reasonable regulation" with "excessive regulation".

Having farm ditches and puddles that amass on farmland after heavy rains as part of EPA oversight is what I would complain about in terms of excessive regulation.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2019/09/12/epa-repeals-obama-era-waters-u-s-rule-criticized-overreach/2301997001/


SNIP:
In a win for property rights, manufacturers and agriculture, the Trump administration Thursday announced a rollback of a sweeping Obama-era clean water regulation that opponents called an egregious power grab.

Wheeler said he expects the new rule to be unveiled sometime this winter. But an initial proposal issued last year indicated federal protections would likely remain for major waterways, rivers, tributaries, wetlands adjacent to federally protected waterways, certain lakes and ponds, reservoirs, and ditches used for navigation or affected by the tide.

Under that proposal, states would oversee most ditches, terrain that fills with water during or in response to rainfall, certain wetlands that have been used to grow crops, stormwater control ponds, and water and wastewater treatment systems.

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/421091-epa-restores-common-sense-to-overaggressive-water-regulations

SNIP:
As a federal executive agency, EPA can only enforce laws that have been passed by Congress. While EPA has some rulemaking authority, it cannot make up laws of its own and then decide to enforce them. This is a very important check against a dictatorial presidency or executive branch. Regarding water regulations, Congress, via the Clean Water Act, has given the executive branch authority to regulate only those bodies of water that are “navigable waters of the United States.”

The Obama administration attempted in 2015 to further expand the definition of navigable waters to include such entities as isolated ponds, dormant streambeds that are dry most of the year, and minor depressions in the land that hold water only in the immediate aftermath of significant rainfall.

The consequences of the 2015 regulatory overreach can, and have been, devastating. Overly aggressive EPA officials tell farmers they cannot manage or cultivate farmlands that hold isolated puddles merely a few days of the year. Homeowners are told they cannot landscape or fill in nuisance depressions in their property that hold water briefly after a heavy rain. Federal bureaucrats have stripped homeowners and families of practical ownership rights to property they have purchased and managed for generations. Property owners who defy the EPA and other federal bureaucrats face steep penalties and fines.



OldVol74

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #108 on: February 27, 2020, 09:29:24 PM »
Also reporting that CDC is supposed to "clear" any statements with Mike Pence before releasing them. That's so comforting

So, you'd want your subordinates going out setting policy without touching base with you?  

I would never put you in charge of people if that's the case.

ATexasVol

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #109 on: February 27, 2020, 11:41:36 PM »
New Wapo story that administration repatriated possibly infected people over CDC objection. Then sent workers to interact with them with no protective gear. Then let them back out without testing or monitoring. Someone voiced objections with this plan and was threatened with termination. And then someone around the base where this happened became infected.

I admit, I underestimated the incompetence of this administration.

Sam, the Dimocrats can't even run a caucus.   Do you think they would do a better job of managing this than the Trump administration?  


katmai

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #110 on: February 28, 2020, 01:39:45 AM »
Sam, the Dimocrats can't even run a caucus.  Do you think they would do a better job of managing this than the Trump administration? 
What gives you the confidence that Trump can manage any crisis?  The people that would know how to deal with a pandemic would be health professionals at the CDC, NIH, and WHO that Trump has been busy getting rid of the past 3 years.  When asked about the lack of staff in those agencies, Trump dismissed the issue, saying that we could just hire those people back immediately.  I am sure they have just been hanging out waiting for a call from the Trump administration.  

Everything Trump does is predicated on how it will benefit him.  Every official that spoke at the press conference yesterday spoke about how great Trump's leadership was on this issue.  Do you really think that just happened?   Trump has lied about everything ever since he has taken office, even little things, always to try to make himself look better.   When someone is such a compulsive liar, how can you believe anything he says?   You saw what the market thought of his "reassuring" remarks yesterday.  

Another big problem with Trump is he has a 19th century, isolationist, America First attitude in a 21st century global economy.  His two best hopes for re-election are the distaste of the American public for the Democratic candidate (which is why he won in 2016), and a strong economy.  He needs to work with the rest of the world on this matter, because our economic fortunes are largely tied with everyone else.  He never seems to get that.  

HK_Vol

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Re: On A Scale of 1 to 10, With 10 Being the Worst
« Reply #111 on: February 28, 2020, 03:04:53 AM »
As for the WHO, it is a massively politicized institution whose Director General is appointed due to politics rather than qualifications.  A doctor in town knew one of the prior Director General's and basically called it malpractice for that person to be in charge of anything.

Another example of "failing upwards".

And at the recent WHO press conference in China?  The WHO Director in charge of China out and out proclaimed that Huawei 5G had had a prominent role in keeping the disease from spreading further.  Chinese journalists gave him a standing ovation for those comments.

I cannot speak for the CDC, but the WHO might actually be counter-productive to tamping down the disease....


Beijing bureau chief for the
@WashingtonPost


https://twitter.com/annafifield/status/1231939336284688384

I just asked Bruce Aylward, who was in Wuhan over the weekend, why he was not in quarantine. He said he didn’t go to any “dirty” areas in Wuhan and that he was tested for coronavirus this morning. He hastily left the press conference because he has a plane to catch...

On the one hand, he’s one of the world’s leading epidemiologists. On the other hand, he just went into hospitals in Wuhan. The Chinese government has a mandatory 14-day quarantine for anyone whose been to Wuhan/Hubei

Judging from what he was saying about not going into parts of hospitals where patients were being treated, I think "dirty" is a technical term for parts of the hospital where the virus is present. But I didn't get a chance to ask because he had to race to the airport.


https://twitter.com/annafifield/status/1231925295382351872

After the WHO’s Bruce Aylward lavishly praises China’s response to the coronavirus and says other countries are wrong to impose travel/trade restrictions on China, Chinese officials and journalists literally applaud him.






 

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