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Topic: Many liberals mistakenly believe 10,000 ‘unarmed blacks’ were killed

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MaximumSam

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I don't know about the credibility of that study, but I recall that around 200 blacks are killed by cops ever year.  Are half of them unarmed? 

It really doesn't matter if they're armed or not - if they're NON-COMPLIANT and either fighting with a cop (where they could grab their gun) or reaching in such-a-way that might produce a weapon, then the cop is obligated to take their own safety into account.
And how do you know if the cops shoot someone? Because the cops tell you so. And they are the ones telling you if the suspect was armed, their behavior, etc.  We have already established that cops can lie. So telling me that we must excuse police killings because the cops have told us they should be excused is not really something that computes.

HK_Vol

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They inventory bullets Sam.  You cannot discharge your weapon without reporting it.  If police are there when a person is shot, the first thing they do is audit the guns of each police officer.  How does are argumentation work?

HK_Vol

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I don't know about the credibility of that study, but I recall that around 200 blacks are killed by cops ever year.  Are half of them unarmed? 

It really doesn't matter if they're armed or not - if they're NON-COMPLIANT and either fighting with a cop (where they could grab their gun) or reaching in such-a-way that might produce a weapon, then the cop is obligated to take their own safety into account.
https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-media-lied-repeatedly-about-officer/comments#comment-1774993

CNNisFakeNews wrote:

SNIP:
At least the "cops are hunting down blacks" narrative is bs for sure.
I researched this in 2020. These are also sourced from WaPo - as leftists as they come. WaPo has logged all fatal police shootings since 2015 in this database:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

Despite their headline, the data tells you a different story. In 2019 there were a total of 999 killings. 858 shootings in which the race was noted. 405 killed were white, 249 were black. Blacks were significantly more likely to have a deadly weapon than a white suspect. Yet more white suspects were killed. There were ONLY 12 cases where the blacks were unarmed - 11 men and 1 women. 7 of these cases - the suspect attacked the cop with eyewitness or camera footage corroboration confirming it. Out of the rest - 1 was an apparent accident. 2 cases - the cop was charged. The others were ongoing investigation when I researched this last year.

One can figure out themselves if in a population of over 360 million, these numbers are anything close to "police are hunting down blacks" or not.

fuzzynavol

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And how do you know if the cops shoot someone? Because the cops tell you so.
 
They have to report when they kill people, which is a matter of public record and always on the daily news (if it bleeds, it leads).  

And they are the ones telling you if the suspect was armed, their behavior, etc.

Yes, thus my support for body cams.  There will always be police corruption.  There are also criminals who will falsely deny that they were armed.  That's not what this is about.  

Rioting over deserved "good kills" or accidental shootings by cops is understandably driving people to the right.  All it takes is the slightest ability to empathize with most of these cops to understand why they're shooting these criminals.  The only accomplishment of the often violent, rioting hooligans and self-righteous instagram posers is that they have ruined the concept of "social justice."  

Another recent controversy is over the killing of a 13 year old boy who had just discarded his gun behind a fence and was raising his hands when he was shot.  Unfortunately, another justifiable shooting that's being mischaracterized as racist police brutality.  

We have already established that cops can lie.
 
Yes, as can criminals. 

So telling me that we must excuse police killings because the cops have told us they should be excused is not really something that computes.

I've never said that once.  I've only asked you to look at the video, empathize with the cops, and be honest about and stop rationalizing these so-called protests.  

fuzzynavol

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https://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-media-lied-repeatedly-about-officer/comments#comment-1774993

CNNisFakeNews wrote:

SNIP:
At least the "cops are hunting down blacks" narrative is bs for sure.
I researched this in 2020. These are also sourced from WaPo - as leftists as they come. WaPo has logged all fatal police shootings since 2015 in this database:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2019/national/police-shootings-2019/

Despite their headline, the data tells you a different story. In 2019 there were a total of 999 killings. 858 shootings in which the race was noted. 405 killed were white, 249 were black. Blacks were significantly more likely to have a deadly weapon than a white suspect. Yet more white suspects were killed. There were ONLY 12 cases where the blacks were unarmed - 11 men and 1 women. 7 of these cases - the suspect attacked the cop with eyewitness or camera footage corroboration confirming it. Out of the rest - 1 was an apparent accident. 2 cases - the cop was charged. The others were ongoing investigation when I researched this last year.

One can figure out themselves if in a population of over 360 million, these numbers are anything close to "police are hunting down blacks" or not.
Yes, and most blacks who are killed by cops are killed by black and latino cops, not white.  We're dealing with a shamefully misinformed social media mob.  It's a shame that anyone in a position of influence bringing these facts to light is taking such a risk.  


ATexasVol

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Well, my main issue here is that getting accurate information about the use of force by the police on the people is difficult. I firmly believe the federal government could have a very positive role in simply collecting and dispersing information, but such things are foiled by politics. So we resort to private enterprises to do this, and not everyone has a copy of The Washington Post report around to rely upon. Further, there is no particular reason to expect the Post to be the authority on this.

It has been a while, but someone (Dan or HK) posted a link to FBI crime statistics that support the Post study.   It's possible the Post uses some of that data - not sure.   The point is I think the data is available, it just has to be mined and presented by the media. 

And think about something you said.  If the dispersal of accurate information is foiled by politics, which side controls the government bureaucracy and the media?   Which side likes to censor and silence the truth?  Why would the truth about police killings of unarmed blacks be suppressed?

Also, I'm calling b.s. on your summary here. You would be the first to talk about how The Washington Post can't be trusted and shouldn't be relied upon. So how can you criticize anyone for, you know, not reading or not believing The Washington Post?

Come on man ,don't be calling bs on me. Especially when you should be thinking "wow, even the left-leaning WaPo says this isn't a problem".  

In any event, no, I don't normally care a lot about any of these things. Most people don't know the statistics of much of anything off the top of their head. The study that you are referencing even admits that we don't actually know how many unarmed black men that were killed by police and suggests it could be up to 100.  So, yes, I am more concerned with the lack of data about government killings than how many people know the stats off the top of their head.

Your blind partisanship is showing.  People are protesting about this issue - and businesses are being destroyed, livelihoods are being ruined, people are getting killed, and property is being vandalized - because the black community thinks they are fighting for their lives.  Do I have to point out the obvious to you?    It's a completely false narrative.   It's a lie.  BLM is based on a lie. None of this is necessary.   Black parents should absolutely NOT teach their children to be afraid of the cops.   

It's the ignorance that is getting people killed.  But that doesn't bother you. The truth doesn't matter to you. You need to do some thinking about that.  




MaximumSam

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Quote
 Which side likes to censor and silence the truth?  Why would the truth about police killings of unarmed blacks be suppressed?
Hey man, if there is one thing I want to kill, it is the persistent myth that this is a "sides" problem. The vast majority of policing occurs at the local level, where politics are a much different animal. The FOP approval has been a goal for judges, prosecutors, mayors, and dog catchers for some time. In fact, it is very recent history where some candidates are running on something other than being really tough on crime and friendly to police.


Nationally, Congress has been mostly nonfunctional for some time, which goes for Republicans and Democrats alike. Simply gathering data would be a first step towards solving any kind of problem here, but it doesn't happen for reasons that boggle the mind.


Quote
Black parents should absolutely NOT teach their children to be afraid of the cops.   
Well, here's the thing. I agree that actual police killings of people is not the biggest issue in the entire world. But it is an emotional issue that people care about. But black people should fear the criminal justice system. It is largely designed and certainly is used in practice to incarcerate black people at a truly astonishing rate. Killings are hard enough to parse out - use of other types of force are much harder to figure out. Certainly, the idea that black people should trust the system to look out for them is false.

fuzzynavol

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But black people should fear the criminal justice system.
 
Everyone should to the extent it deters them from committing a crime.  

It is largely designed and certainly is used in practice to incarcerate black people at a truly astonishing rate.
 
You're banging that drum again?  Anecdotally, I seems every time I see a murder committed by a black man, they recount his priors (one recently had killed his own mother only 2 years ago) and my first question is always, "what's he doing out of jail?" and I think about people complaining about "mass incarceration." 

Killings are hard enough to parse out - use of other types of force are much harder to figure out.
 
Killings are easy to count.  Data also shows that cops go "hands-on" (some level of physical force) with blacks at a 25% higher rate than they do whites.  That could be explained by racial bias, or it could be explained by blacks' tendency to resist police authority. 

Certainly, the idea that black people should trust the system to look out for them is false.

When blacks are the victim of crime, they should call the police for help.  If they are the perpetrators of crime, they should comply with police authority when confronted and/or apprehended.  That's the system, and blacks who distrust it do so to their own detriment. 

harvestalvol

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Yes, and most blacks who are killed by cops are killed by black and latino cops, not white.  We're dealing with a shamefully misinformed social media mob.  It's a shame that anyone in a position of influence bringing these facts to light is taking such a risk. 


Fuzz, it's a real shame that you stopped posting here. You actually present reasonable arguments at times. You may be in danger of becoming a conservative. 

HK_Vol

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If George Floyd hadn't taken fentanyl, he'd be alive today.
If George Floyd hadn't resisted arrest, he could well be alive today.
If George Floyd hadn't lied about taking drugs and told the officers he had taken fentanyl, the police could have had an ambulance arrive and given him naxolone - which could have prevented his overdose death.

Seems to be that George Floyd committed suicide to a large extent.
Perhaps Chauvin should have been charged with assisted suicide instead?



HK_Vol

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Not to worry, with open borders, even more fentanyl is flooding into the country....crime gangs are thrilled....

https://www.baltimoresun.com/opinion/columnists/dan-rodricks/bs-md-rodricks-0420-overdose-deaths-20210420-p3biwd3bpfeyxf6wdstggepcm4-story.html

SNIP:
After listening to April Babcock speak and weep about the son she lost to a fentanyl overdose in 2019, I went to reports for that year and learned that Austen Babcock of Dundalk was one of the country’s 70,630 drug overdose victims. Reports for 2020 are out and they’re even worse — staggering, really, and almost too much to bear after a year when hundreds of thousands died from a virus.

But here it is, from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention: There were 87,203 overdose deaths across the country and 2,773 of them in Maryland. Our opioid epidemic continues.

Fentanyl, the synthetic pain killer, caused most of this death.



https://www.djournal.com/news/national/san-francisco-overdose-deaths-far-outpaced-covid-19-deaths-in-2020/article_8d94a75b-e688-5745-b455-fabdda3d4fde.html

San Francisco overdose deaths far outpaced COVID-19 deaths in 2020

SNIP:
Nearly three times as many people died from accidental drug overdoses in San Francisco in 2020 than from the coronavirus, preliminary data released by the city’s Office of the Chief Medical Examiner reveals.

A total of 713 San Franciscans died from drug overdoses in 2020 compared to 255 who died from the coronavirus.


The majority of overdose deaths primarily involved fentanyl, followed by methamphetamine and cocaine.

Drug overdose deaths during this time increased more than 20% in 25 states and the District of Columbia, by 10% to 19% in 11 states and New York City, and by zero to 9% in 10 states, while decreasing in four states.

HK_Vol

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Cincydawg

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I don't think an LEO can "get away" with shooting someone without there being a record of it.  We have seen a case where his name was withheld, along with details, but that was Capitol Police, a bit different.  Is it possible that partners could shoot someone and never report it?  Yes, but that would be very rare.

There probably are some cases where a throw away is planted on the victim, but that also would be very rare.  Shootings of civilians for any reason is very rare in fact.

And most police officers in major cities are black anyway, so the race angle doesn't work that well either.

HK_Vol

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Body cams prevent most opportunities for a "plant" nowadays.
Police have never been more accountable.
The left doesn't want an accountable police force, they want the abolishment of the police.

 

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