header pic

Area51 Board (non-moderated) at College Football Fan Site, CFB51!!!

The 'Old' Scout-Tennessee a51 Crowd- Enjoy ROWDY discussion covering politics, religion, current events, and all things under the sun

Anyone is welcomed and encouraged to join our FREE site and to take part in our community- a community with you- the user, the fan, -and the person- will be protected from intrusive actions and with a clean place to interact.


Author

Topic: If God existed and actually cared.....

 (Read 2599 times)

DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18295
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #112 on: November 12, 2018, 06:01:11 PM »
I am just a cyber-stalking troll who wants to try and bully someone  and can't   I claim that my wife and family are Church goers and so am I at times. But so far I have learned nothing so I will continue to display my bigotry  
Sad but it is what it is
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18295
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #113 on: November 12, 2018, 06:09:17 PM »
It can be an interesting topic, but some may feel persecuted by anyone who isn't aligned with their personal belief set.
You can believe what ever you want. 
I will speak out when someone says something that is inaccurate. Example We had a poster who said that God was ok with abortion and he quoted a prophecy in the Bible about a upcoming battle in which babies would be ripped from the womb
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #114 on: November 12, 2018, 06:27:03 PM »
It's good to correct factually incorrect assertions.

Most things here are opinions.

The whole eschatology thing can get fascinating, there are some real divergencies there.

P1tchBlack

  • Guest
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #115 on: November 12, 2018, 08:46:21 PM »
Sad but it is what it is
Maybe you can explain how the guy on the cross next to Jesus was saved and what Mark said is true.
Ready....GO!

Mark 16:16
Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #116 on: November 13, 2018, 07:42:18 AM »
It COULD mean "baptized 'with the Holy Spirit'" ...

fuzzynavol

  • seeker of passage
  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 8405
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #117 on: November 13, 2018, 08:01:00 AM »
It COULD mean "baptized 'with the Holy Spirit'" ...
So baptism means baptism until it doesn't.  Just keep watering down that theology.  
If there's no action (baptism) required, then presumably everyone would therefore "baptized" and there's no reason to include it in the criteria for salvation.  

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #118 on: November 13, 2018, 08:17:58 AM »
I would view "baptized with the Holy Spirit" as being an action not accorded to all.

One can indeed criticize the lack of specificity and clarity.  Different denominations obviously view baptism differently, quite.


P1tchBlack

  • Guest
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #119 on: November 13, 2018, 08:40:06 AM »
It COULD mean "baptized 'with the Holy Spirit'" ...
Nope. The act of baptizing was very clear and important at that time.  It was part of becoming a follower of Jesus. ..and much better than cutting off part of your genitals.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2018, 08:52:06 AM by P1tchBlack »

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #120 on: November 13, 2018, 08:44:03 AM »
https://bible.knowing-jesus.com/topics/Baptism-Of-The-Holy-Spirit

And there is a lot in the NT about being baptized with the Holy Spirit.  

Acts 11:15-16

"And I remembered the word of the Lord, how He used to say, 'John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them just as He did upon us at the beginning.

Luke 3:16
Verse Concepts

John answered and said to them all, "As for me, I baptize you with water; but One is coming who is mightier than I, and I am not fit to untie the thong of His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.



fuzzynavol

  • seeker of passage
  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 8405
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #121 on: November 13, 2018, 08:58:14 AM »
I would view "baptized with the Holy Spirit" as being an action not accorded to all.


Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #122 on: November 13, 2018, 09:22:05 AM »
You can of course not accept my "interpretation", fine with me, but I did provide Scriptural support for that line of thinking.

And if one presumes Jesus has the Power of the Almighty vested in Him, He obviously can do anything He wants whether it is according to Rule or not.

fuzzynavol

  • seeker of passage
  • Legend
  • ****
  • Posts: 8405
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #123 on: November 13, 2018, 09:34:14 AM »

And if one presumes Jesus has the Power of the Almighty vested in Him, He obviously can do anything He wants whether it is according to Rule or not.
That's a big IF my non-skeptical friend.  

Cincydawg

  • Ombudsman for the Secret Order of the Odd Fellows
  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Default Avatar
  • Posts: 28591
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #124 on: November 13, 2018, 09:36:29 AM »
A poster requested an "explanation".  I provided one.  Whether it is right or not is of course a question, and whether it is persuasive or not depends on who reads it.

It merely is on explanation.

For those who think nothing in the Bible makes sense at all, using the Bible to explain the Bible won't make sense either.

DunkingDan

  • Global Moderator
  • Hall of Fame
  • *****
  • Posts: 18295
  • Liked:
Re: If God existed and actually cared.....
« Reply #125 on: November 13, 2018, 10:58:36 AM »
It COULD mean "baptized 'with the Holy Spirit'" ...
  And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature [Mark 16:15].
This has been a Gospel of action. Now He’s telling them to get into action! They are to go. And, by the way, He is saying to us today that we should be men and women of action for God. What are you doing today to get out the Word of God? That is our business, friend. You should be having some part in getting the Word of God out today.
  He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned [Mark 16:16].
He does not say that if you are not baptized you will be damned. He is not saying that baptism is necessary to salvation, but that the person who is saved will be baptized. It is the rejection of Christ which brings eternal damnation. “He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him” (John 3:36
McGee, J. V. (1991). Thru the Bible commentary: The Gospels (Mark) (electronic ed., Vol. 36, p. 201). Nashville: Thomas Nelson..
Marks words were written after Pentecost. Christ forgave the man on the cross as the man repented and believed in him 
Many want to try and distort what was once understood 
as a note
Baptism in the NT begins with John’s baptism, which was a prophetic call to repentance and forgiveness of sins (Mark 1:4). When Jesus is baptised, however, it is understood quite differently: it is not for sin (Matt. 3:13-15); rather it is a theophany (i.e. a self-revealing of God) in which Jesus is identified as ‘Beloved Son’ and commissioned as the herald of God’s kingdom (Mark 1:10-11; see Isa. 42:1-9). Christian baptism of converts retained the sense of rites of purification (1 Peter 3:21) as well as adoption as God’s children. Paul speaks of God pouring his Holy Spirit into converts’ hearts, enabling them to say ‘Abba, Father’ (Gal. 4:6; Rom. 8:15-17). This baptism was in some sense to Christianity what circumcision was to Judaism. John 3:3-5, in fact, makes baptism—not circumcision—the formal entrance rite into the covenant community (see Col. 2:11-12).
The interpretation of Christian baptism was fluid in the first century. At Corinth it was compared to Israel’s exodus through the sea and its eating of the manna in the desert (1 Cor. 10:1-4). In other places it was compared with Noah’s escape from God’s wrath on sinners (1 Pet. 3:21). It was also compared with Jesus’ death and resurrection; Christians symbolically die to their sins and former lives, a death they share with Christ, and are buried with him; as they rise from baptism in purity, they share the new life brought by Jesus’ resurrection (Rom. 6:1-4). Hence baptism may be compared to a new birth (John 3:4-5)
Achtemeier, P. J., Harper & Row and Society of Biblical Literature. (1985). In Harper’s Bible dictionary (1st ed., pp. 92–93). San Francisco: Harper & Row.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

 

Associate Links/Search