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Topic: Electricity update Pt. 10

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Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #42 on: June 28, 2020, 08:36:10 AM »
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2015/12/f28/united-states-electricity-industry-primer.pdf

A useful primer on the electrical power status in the US, I think.  

It explains "base load" as a concept and which types of power plants are best suited for providing that.

Power demand fluctuates throughout the day and across regions with varying population densities because utility-scale electricity storage does not exist. To keep the power grid balanced at all times, generation operators must dispatch enough power required to supply demand. Power dispatch is coordinated by the plant operator and a transmission system operator making communications critical at generation facilities. Figure 11 shows an example of a demand curve as it might occur over the course of a single day and is indicative to the level of human activity. Demand rises from off-peak hours in the early morning, approaching shoulder peaks during the work and school day. Priority peak occurs in the evening hours where peak load is reached. Because demand is hardly constant, generation must adjust accordingly. Base-loading power plants operate in off-peak hours to satisfy the minimum or base demands whereas peaking power plants gradually come online and provide power as demand approaches shoulder and peak loads. In order to rapidly accommodate fluctuating demand, natural gas fired plants, which have faster start up times but typically higher fuel costs, are activated gradually for peaking demands. Coal and nuclear plants, which can take up to 12 or more hours to start, are most effective at satisfying base-load demands. 

DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #43 on: June 28, 2020, 01:44:41 PM »
Well bless your little heart. Maybe you learned something from it.
Now lets ask some questions and see if you can google them up. Hint if you had a gas power generator you should know the answer to some of them off the top of your head. As a note these are elementary my dear Watson.
If a unit is on idle and in automatic control and the load drops, system demands go up what sort of signal is generated to cause the unit to start ramping up?
Why is the type of unit important, including name plate data?
What starts first increase in fuel, water, etc.?
What about water for steam is more pumps turned on, a valve opened, a pump sped up, or something else?
Where is the water from?
What type of water is it and why (possible bonus points here if you give a in depth answer and with your vast knowledge this should be easy) ?
What other systems are affected?
How do they get their signal?
What happens if the generator is out of synch?
How do you insure it is not?
What happens if it over speeds?
What Happens if is under speeds?
What happens to the grid and your generation source if a major load unit drops?
What controls are in place to minimize the effects of that?
Where was NG in use in the US?
Why did its use decline (Hint that is a multifaceted answer)?
Why was it in use in those regions (Hint this too is a multifaceted answer) ?
Why was it not in much use it the regions I refenced that I was referring to (memory refreshers, TVA, Duke and most of the NE)?
When was peek load times in the 50s through the 90s in the regions I referred to?
Why might that be different in other regions?
If it was what was done in these regions that ensured they had adequate power?
What type of power did they have (bonus if you can name the types and reasons for the choice)?
Could they be tied on to the grid?
If so what was required for that to occur and if not was required to prevent it?
Why was this critical?
Why does most utilities have various size and types of power generators?
Why are they spread out instead of all near one central location (Again this is a multifaceted answer)?
What happens if a sizable portion of the grid is lost?
What protections are in place to protect the rest of the grid?
Why is this important?
Why is base load and peak times different in different regions?
Why did say the NE require more power at night than say the SE, proportionally speaking?
Why is having a working knowledge of this and a working relationship with providers for such facilities as DOE, ORNL, Y12, ALCOA, etc.?
I could go on but……

 
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #44 on: June 28, 2020, 01:44:47 PM »
I don't now what practice they adhere to now

They adhere to the practice of whatever one produces the largest number of net jobs.  Coal wins by a mile in terms of operations, build, coal mining and transportation.

_______________________


China Seen Adding New Wave of Coal Plants After Lifting Curbs
www.bnnbloomberg.ca › china-seen-adding-new-wave...
Jun 10, 2020 - BEIJING, CHINA - NOVEMBER 27: A coal fired power plant is seen on ... world's coal and views it as an important source of cheap power and mass employment.
They have to have a operational plan to integrate the various components in their system both at the time and in the future.

I know when George Kimmons and others went over this was discussed in detail with them.

Their Dams are impressive and has saved them tons of money from spring flood damages since some have been built. If memory serves me correctly they were advised to build several more to not only provide flood control but for power production as well
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #45 on: June 28, 2020, 07:47:08 PM »
Maybe, but it looks like they may need more dams.  This is close to the Three Gorges Dam....


https://twitter.com/MediaToShare/status/1276808775220039680



https://twitter.com/MediaToShare/status/1276896683318808577


DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #46 on: June 28, 2020, 07:53:31 PM »
Maybe, but it looks like they may need more dams.  This is close to the Three Gorges Dam....


https://twitter.com/MediaToShare/status/1276808775220039680



https://twitter.com/MediaToShare/status/1276896683318808577
I knew at one time how many Dams were recommended, but that number escapes me now.
Sad GK is no longer with us. If he was I would ask him and which rivers. He and his wife were good people.
« Last Edit: June 28, 2020, 08:06:29 PM by DunkingDan »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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US Eyes Building Nuclear Power Plants for Moon and Mars
« Reply #47 on: July 25, 2020, 07:06:15 PM »
The U.S. wants to build nuclear power plants that will work on the moon and Mars, and on Friday put out a request for ideas from the private sector on how to do that.
The U.S. Department of Energy put out the formal request to build what it calls a fission surface power system that could allow humans to live for long periods in harsh space environments.
The Idaho National Laboratory, a nuclear research facility in eastern Idaho, the Energy Department and NASA will evaluate the ideas for developing the reactor.

The lab has been leading the way in the U.S. on advanced reactors, some of them micro reactors and others that can operate without water for cooling. Water-cooled nuclear reactors are the vast majority of reactors on Earth.

“Small nuclear reactors can provide the power capability necessary for space exploration missions of interest to the Federal government,” the Energy Department wrote in the notice published Friday.

The Energy Department, NASA and Battelle Energy Alliance, the U.S. contractor that manages the Idaho National Laboratory, plan to hold a government-industry webcast technical meeting in August concerning expectations for the program.

The plan has two phases. The first is developing a reactor design. The second is building a test reactor, a second reactor be sent to the moon, and developing a flight system and lander that can transport the reactor to the moon. The goal is to have a reactor, flight system and lander ready to go by the end of 2026.

The reactor must be able to generate an uninterrupted electricity output of at least 10 kilowatts. The average U.S. residential home, according to the U.S. Energy Information Administration, uses about 11,000 kilowatt-hours per year. The Energy Department said it would likely take multiple linked reactors to meet power needs on the moon or Mars.

In addition, the reactor cannot weigh more than 7,700 pounds (3,500 kilograms), be able to operate in space, operate mostly autonomously, and run for at least 10 years.

The Energy Department said the reactor is intended to support exploration in the south polar region of the moon. The agency said a specific region on the Martian surface for exploration has not yet been identified.

Edwin Lyman, director of Nuclear Power Safety at the Union of Concerned Scientists, a nonprofit, said his organization is concerned the parameters of the design and timeline make the most likely reactors those that use highly enriched uranium, which can be made into weapons. Nations have generally been attempting to reduce the amount of enriched uranium being produced for that reason.

“This may drive or start an international space race to build and deploy new types of reactors requiring highly enriched uranium,” he said.

Earlier this week, the United Arab Emirates launched an orbiter to Mars and China launched an orbiter, lander and rover. The U.S. has already landed rovers on the red planet and is planning to send another next week.

Officials say operating a nuclear reactor on the moon would be a first step to building a modified version to operate in the different conditions found on Mars.
“Idaho National Laboratory has a central role in emphasizing the United States’ global leadership in nuclear innovation, with the anticipated demonstration of advanced reactors on the INL site,” John Wagner, associate laboratory director of INL’s Nuclear Science & Technology Directorate, said in a statement. “The prospect of deploying an advanced reactor to the lunar surface is as exciting as it is challenging."

https://www.usnews.com/news/politics/articles/2020-07-24/us-eyes-building-nuclear-power-plants-for-moon-and-mars?fbclid=IwAR3FJUiQygFs5heYM25DzDUGTAeu6WGEnREs0_G4dg2Aoosp6DKHju70Cb4


President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #48 on: July 26, 2020, 09:30:24 PM »
Through May, coal only produced 16.8% of US electricity.
Wind and Solar produced 12.6% of US electricity.
In 2008, coal produced 35 times as much electricity as wind & solar - rather than today's 1.3 times.

Out west, California generated 25% from solar while Nevada was at 16.7% and Arizona was 8.9%.  Hawaii generated 18.6% from solar.

In the Southeast, the numbers were close to zero five years ago.
For the first five months of 2020, solar numbers were:
North Carolina:  7.5%
Georgia:            3.5%
Florida:              3.1%

Texas is by far the largest generator of electricity of any state in the union, producing about 12% of US power.  In the first five months of 2020, they generated 24% of their electricity from wind and solar.

In the windy Midwest (North Dakota, South Dakota, Iowa, Kansas, Nebraska), they generated 42.3% of their electricity from wind.

Between more electric cars and fracking, our dependence on the Middle East for energy is nearing zero.  Fine by me.






Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #49 on: July 27, 2020, 07:20:24 AM »
We still are impacted by the mideast oil supply because of the price of oil (which obviously is low at the moment).  If there is instability in the ME, the price goes up, often by a lot, and that impacts the US as well, but now some of the impact is positive.

Europe gets hammered.

Japan gets hammered.  China gets hammered.

DunkingDan

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UAE completes construction of Barakah 2
« Reply #50 on: July 27, 2020, 05:19:46 PM »
The Emirates Nuclear Energy Corporation (ENEC) has completed the construction of unit 2 of the Barakah nuclear power plant. The unit, which is in the Al Dhafra region of Abu Dhabi, has been officially handed over to ENEC subsidiary Nawah Energy Company, which can now start preparations to obtain an operating licence for the unit from the Federal Authority for Nuclear Regulation.

ENEC is in the final stages of construction of the four-unit Barakah plant, in the Al Dhafra region of Abu Dhabi. The Korean-supplied APR1400 reactors are being built by a consortium led by Korea Electric Power Corporation (KEPCO), and will be operated and maintained by Nawah Energy Company, an ENEC subisidiary which is partially owned by KEPCO.
Mohamed Al Hammadi, CEO of ENEC said today: "The completion of unit 2 construction activities in adherence to the highest international standards of safety, security and quality, and the handover of all systems to Nawah for commissioning are important milestones that reflect the dedication and skill of everyone involved in the UAE Peaceful Nuclear Energy Programme. These achievements also highlight the benefits of building four identical reactors simultaneously, as the lessons learned during the construction of unit 1 have contributed to the successful development of units 2, 3 and 4 of the Barakah Plant."
Construction of unit 1 was completed in 2018, and FANR issued a 60-year operating licence to Nawah in February of this year. Fuel loading was completed in early March.
Construction of units 3 and 4 are 92% and 85% complete, respectively, while the construction of the plant as a whole is now 94% complete.
Once the four reactors are online, the facility will provide around 25% of the country’s electricity and avoid the release of up to 21 million tonnes of carbon emissions that would otherwise be produced by burning fossil fuels for electricity generation.
Researched and written by World Nuclear News

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

DunkingDan

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Assembly of ITER tokamak officially under way
« Reply #51 on: August 05, 2020, 12:29:21 PM »
A ceremony was held yesterday within the ITER Assembly Hall to mark the official start of the assembly of the tokamak fusion device of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) at Cadarache in south-eastern France. Assembly of the tokamak is expected to take five years to complete.

Construction of ITER began in 2010. In March this year, the European Domestic Agency handed over the central building of the ITER scientific installation - the Tokamak Building - to the Iter Organisation for the start of machine assembly. The main components of the tokamak have already arrived at the ITER construction site from all over the world. The first magnets from Europe and Japan have been delivered, while the 1250-tonne steel base of the cryostat, manufactured by India, is already installed in the Tokamak Building. This week, the first sector of the ITER vacuum vessel arrived in France from South Korea, preparing the way for machine assembly.
At the ceremony yesterday, President Emmanuel Macron of France and dignitaries from the seven ITER Members acknowledged the importance of the moment, reaffirmed their confidence in ITER's success and congratulated the "One ITER team" for the progress achieved.
"Today is an historic moment," said Iter Organisation Director-General Bernard Bigot. He said ITER is "the first-of-a-kind machine made up of many first-of-a-kind components and breakthrough inventions. To build this machine - a star on Earth - requires a level of international collaboration that is also first-of-a-kind." He added, "Building a fusion power plant isn't easy. We are moving forward as rapidly as possible, but in order to succeed we must also be deliberate. Quality and safety are always to be first. If we succeed, it will be worth all the time and effort that has brought us to this point.
"Today, as we look forward to the machine assembly phase, we know that the hardest part lies ahead. Constructing the machine, piece by piece, will be like assembling a giant three-dimensional puzzle on an intricate timeline."
ITER will be the world's largest tokamak: 30 metres in diameter and of similar height, weighing a total of 23,000 tonnes, comprising about 1 million individual components and 1200 engineering packages. The 500 MW tokamak fusion device (requiring an input of 50 MW) is designed to prove the feasibility of fusion as a large-scale and carbon-free source of energy. The European Union is contributing almost half of the cost of its construction, while the other six members (China, India, Japan, South Korea, Russia and the USA) are contributing equally to the rest. First plasma is scheduled for 2025 and the start of deuterium-tritium operation is set for 2035.
"We know we need a replacement for fossil fuels as soon as possible," Bigot said. "We understand very clearly the promise of fusion power as a safe, reliable, environmentally sustainable and virtually unlimited source of energy. If fusion power becomes universal, complimentary to renewable energies, the use of electricity could be expanded greatly."
Speaking via video link, Macron said: "ITER is a promise of progress and confidence in science; it is already a scientific and technological feat. Imagine that this experiment is conclusive and that industrial applications follow ... we will have developed a new form of energy that is non-polluting, carbon-free, safe and practically without waste; energy that will answer the needs of populations in all parts of the world, meet the challenges of climate change and preserve natural resources."
Researched and written by World Nuclear News

President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #52 on: August 05, 2020, 12:34:27 PM »

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #53 on: August 05, 2020, 07:25:10 PM »
I'd say commercial implementation is decades away, if at all.....

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26658/20200729/project-iter-paves-way-future-nuclear-energy.htm


SNIP:
Plans for ITER began in 1985, but progress had been delayed. Also, despite about 60 years of nuclear research, there are still numerous technical challenges the thousands of experts will face in building the giant reactor to harness all that energy.

DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #54 on: August 05, 2020, 07:36:14 PM »
I'd say commercial implementation is decades away, if at all.....

https://www.sciencetimes.com/articles/26658/20200729/project-iter-paves-way-future-nuclear-energy.htm


SNIP:
Plans for ITER began in 1985, but progress had been delayed. Also, despite about 60 years of nuclear research, there are still numerous technical challenges the thousands of experts will face in building the giant reactor to harness all that energy.
It is.


In ways I am glad the Breeder Rx was stopped in OR, but parts of me wishes it had been built.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #55 on: August 05, 2020, 07:38:04 PM »
Doesn't France have something close to a breeder reactor?


 

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