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Topic: Electricity update Pt. 10

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DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #28 on: June 27, 2020, 02:38:59 PM »
Now you are blathering about stuff I never asserted, which is your usual silliness.

As to opposed to you ROFLMFAO

An NG turbine can start up and reach 100% in less than an hour.  They are basically jet engines. 

Most are as I said can take up to 3 hrs. At least thatwas the case when I had to deal with the industry. I have no idea about the modern one and really do not give a flying f, as theya re not what I was referancing

A coal plant will take 8-12 hours, for OBVIOUS reasons.

Depends on the size of the unit and if is is in ''hot standby'' which if you removed your head from your ass you might realize that is what I said

And I know we had a gas turbine used for cogeneration at one of our facilities in 1984.  This isn't some new technology.  NG turbines have been around for decades.

Small units for a small facility not commercial operation or to supply power to a plant to shut down i.e. nuclear if off site power is lost, etc

I see your usual lying and deception in action now coupled with cursing and name calling.  Your alleged "expertise" is appallingly poor in my view.

You have a opinion on everything that is about as worthy of what is shoveled out of a bulls stall

Now maybe you will want me to list all my 'science classes" I ever took again.  Oh wait, maybe you figured that was a losing proposition.  Maybe someone clued you in.

No one has to clue me in or did. I realize you are a self centered know it all whose has a overrated opinion of his self worth and knowledge or else you wold not be playing a rabid chihuahua unrinating all over every post trying to build your self esteem.
I realize that is a intentional effort to get people to get in the mud and wrestle with you.
As I said and it still applies ''If you think there was widespread gas plants until just very recently to do the same more efficiency you are further showing your lack of knowledge and your  willingness to try to show yourself as knowledgeable, when in actually you are a fucking idiot (as a note that is not name calling but a description of your actions) on most posts you respond as you can not help yourself and feel you must be like a dog and distribute you urine everywhere. That is why you are on ignore but as this is a field I have expertise in I decided to see what you regurgitated ''
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #29 on: June 27, 2020, 02:45:04 PM »
Seems we had a fair number of NG electrical generation quite a few years ago.  Of course, I back up my assertions based on more than "I'm an expert in this field".  I actually cite references.  You know, literature, web sites, authoritative studies, etc.





Tell me again how NG electrical generation didn't exist until very recently?  What is "very recently" for you anyway?

Your "expertise" is not impressive, to me.  I'm sure it is impressive to YOU though.  

Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #30 on: June 27, 2020, 02:46:35 PM »
I realize I get "under your skin" by showing how your "expertise" is so limited, but I personally don't think that calls for profanity and name calling.

You could simply walk away, or just agree to disagree.  

It might be a better choice.

DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #31 on: June 27, 2020, 03:03:17 PM »
Any clue as to how much TVA used until recently (starting mid to late 1990s) that is who I primarily dealt with. Duke was similar as were most utilities here in the NE if you want it refined on down. If you read an grasped what I was saying you might have half a clue, but no like OJ's prosecutors you rush to judgement and fail.

Natural gas started being used more and more in the south in the mid 90's by TVA and other utilities Hence your production rate of ~ 20% in 2006. It nor you figure addresses the time period nor the region I referred to.

Thanks for continuing to prove my points great job

If you wanted to talk about the Midwest, the North west, etc the answers would be different. The fact would not change though about the Tenn Valley and surround region nor the time frame I spoke about.






President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #32 on: June 27, 2020, 03:09:32 PM »
''If you think there was widespread gas plants until just very recently to do the same more efficiency you are further showing your lack of knowledge and your  willingness to try to show yourself as knowledgeable, when in actually you are a fucking idiot (as a note that is not name calling but a description of your actions) on most posts you respond as you can not help yourself and feel you must be like a dog and distribute you urine everywhere. That is why you are on ignore but as this is a field I have expertise in I decided to see what you regurgitated ''

Yes, I think there was widespread use of NG to generate electricity many decades ago.

And, what's interesting, is that I have backed that up with references.  I presume 1980 would not be considered "very recently".


Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #33 on: June 27, 2020, 03:10:43 PM »
Perhaps the person claiming to be some expert in this general area really isn't.  

That would be consistent with what I have noted in other areas as well.

DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #34 on: June 27, 2020, 03:54:09 PM »
As I said ''So far all you are doing is talking past what I said about how the industry was ran, not how it is ran now

Likewise in you effort to demonize you ignore examples that go to what I actually said, not what you wish I had said, as well as many other factors (including what I actually said)...................

An example Any clue as to how much TVA used until recently (starting mid to late 1990s) that is who I primarily dealt with. Duke was similar as were most utilities here in the NE if you want it refined on down. If you read an grasped what I was saying you might have half a clue, but no like OJ's prosecutors you rush to judgement and fail.


Natural gas started being used more and more in the south in the mid 90's by TVA and other utilities Hence your production rate of ~ 20% in 2006. It nor you figure addresses the time period nor the region I referred to.

If you wanted to talk about the Midwest, the North west, etc the answers would be different. The fact would not change though about the Tenn Valley and surround region nor the time frame I spoke about.

No one has to clue me in or did. I realize you are a self centered know it all whose has a overrated opinion of his self worth and knowledge or else you wold not be playing a rabid chihuahua unrinating all over every post trying to build your self esteem.
I realize that is a intentional effort to get people to get in the mud and wrestle with you.
If you think there was widespread gas plants (in the region I was refereed to and clarified for you
)  until just very recently to do the same more efficiency you are further showing your lack of knowledge and your  willingness to try to show yourself as knowledgeable, when in actually you are a fucking idiot (as a note that is not name calling but a description of your actions) on most posts you respond as you can not help yourself and feel you must be like a dog and distribute you urine everywhere. That is why you are on ignore but as this is a field I have expertise in I decided to see what you regurgitated ''
« Last Edit: June 27, 2020, 04:01:52 PM by DunkingDan »
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

Cincydawg

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #35 on: June 27, 2020, 04:09:16 PM »
Well, I think there was wide spread use of NG to generate electrical power in the US quite a long time back.

I guess that makes me an "f-ing idiot", pardon me if I don't use the actual word.  Pardon me for CITING actual articles and charts etc. instead of just claiming I am some expert.  I tend to rely on the Internet quite a bit.  And yes, parts are misleading and wrong, like when some alleged internet "expert" starts spouting about stuff about which he clearly is ignorant and factually completely incorrect on point after point.

So, what have "we" learned?

1.  NG is useful in meeting peak loads because generators can be fired up quickly and modulated without losing much efficiency.
2.  Coal and nuclear are useful in provide steady baseload because they are less efficient when used variably.
3.  NG has been a significant power source for MANY decades, not "very recently".




DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #36 on: June 27, 2020, 05:24:50 PM »
Well, I think there was wide spread use of NG to generate electrical power in the US quite a long time back.

Again you ignore the region I refereed to as well as the context as I explained to you but you as usual ignored


I guess that makes me an "f-ing idiot", pardon me if I don't use the actual word.

Well when you are willfully ignornat by not reading what is actually posted in context are what you are, Perhaps if you took it in the context it was said you might understand it better but go ahead and make presumptions all you want. Those are sort of like assumptions except they are are all on you

  Pardon me for CITING actual articles and charts etc.

Which did not address what I said in context 


So, what have "we" learned?

1.  NG is useful in meeting peak loads because generators can be fired up quickly and modulated without losing much efficiency.

No one said they were not 

2.  Coal and nuclear are useful in provide steady baseload because they are less efficient when used variably.

While you ignore the use of many small capacity coal fired generations as TVA, Duke and others have used since they were built. Large generation coal plants were ran as base load. The small units ~ not always, when TVA and others only had the three means to produce power    


3.  NG has been a significant power source for MANY decades, not "very recently".

It may have been significant in other regions but not the ones I addressed
so we can add this.

4 Cincy does not pay attention to what is posted to him or in context. He loves to play his game by trying to set traps and presumes others are taking the bait and springs to try and demonize the without giving any thought to what the actual reply said or in context . As he has stated in the past and implied here he is trying to shame someone. This is a result of them standing up to him and showing him to be wrong. Most of what I stated can be found if someone wants to look. I don't have to as I lived with that and other areas my entire life. I even gave him a brief lesson in power plant controls (simplified). We can discuss both Nuclear and Fossil a lot of the concepts are the same except Fossil can ramp up rather quickly if kept in hot standby.  
Thanks for continuing to prove my points
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #37 on: June 27, 2020, 07:48:21 PM »
So far in June (rounded, but roughly accurate), Natural Gas has produced 40% of US electricity while coal, nuclear and renewables have each produced about 20% each.

Nuclear and coal will continue to decline while renewables will have the greatest increases.
How do I know?  I simply look at the planned closures of nuclear and coal generating plants in the coming years and then look at the planned new capacity which shows renewables taking over 50% of new generation added with natural gas taking up a vast majority of the balance.
__________________


Table 6.5. Planned U.S. Electric Generating Unit Additions
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_6_05

planned U.S. electric generating capacity additions



Table 6.6. Planned U.S. Electric Generating Unit Retirements
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_6_06

planned U.S. electric generating capacity retirements


DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #38 on: June 27, 2020, 07:53:12 PM »
So far in June (rounded, but roughly accurate), Natural Gas has produced 40% of US electricity while coal, nuclear and renewables have each produced about 20% each.

Nuclear and coal will continue to decline while renewables will have the greatest increases.
How do I know?  I simply look at the planned closures of nuclear and coal generating plants in the coming years and then look at the planned new capacity which shows renewables taking over 50% of new generation added with natural gas taking up a vast majority of the balance.
__________________


Table 6.5. Planned U.S. Electric Generating Unit Additions
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_6_05

planned U.S. electric generating capacity additions



Table 6.6. Planned U.S. Electric Generating Unit Retirements
https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_6_06

planned U.S. electric generating capacity retirements
Plants are getting old and investors at least in the states don't want to invest in refurbishing them. Interesting though that developing nations are building so much nuclear.
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #39 on: June 27, 2020, 07:58:16 PM »
China is building a number of nuclear plants - I wish they'd build more....

Meanwhile, the environmental wackos protest in Washington DC and elsewhere in the US where air pollution is dropping rapidly, yet never bother to protest in Beijing where air pollution is increasing rapidly.  Where is Al Gore on this?  

Hypocrites.



https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-still-revving-up-coal-fired-power-study


China still revving up coal-fired power: Study

SNIP:

China has nearly 250 gigawatts (GW) of coal-fired power under development, more than the entire coal power capacity of the United States, according to a study released yesterday, casting doubt on the country's commitments to cutting fossil fuel use.

Beijing has vowed to replace coal with cleaner energy forms, but new coal project approvals have accelerated this year, according to the study by Global Energy Monitor (GEM) and the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea).

"While much of the world is moving away from coal, China continues to make it a central part of its energy mix," said Ms Christine Shearer, coal programme director at GEM.


The study said China has already proposed another 40.8GW of new coal-fired power plants this year, after Beijing eased restrictions on new plants. It now has 97.8GW of coal-fired power under construction and another 151.8GW at the planning stage. Plants accounting for some 17GW were allowed to start construction this year, more than the total amount approved during the previous two years.


DunkingDan

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #40 on: June 27, 2020, 08:06:21 PM »
China is building a number of nuclear plants - I wish they'd build more....

Meanwhile, the environmental wackos protest in Washington DC and elsewhere in the US where air pollution is dropping rapidly, yet never bother to protest in Beijing where air pollution is increasing rapidly.  Where is Al Gore on this? 

Hypocrites.



https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/china-still-revving-up-coal-fired-power-study


China still revving up coal-fired power: Study

SNIP:

China has nearly 250 gigawatts (GW) of coal-fired power under development, more than the entire coal power capacity of the United States, according to a study released yesterday, casting doubt on the country's commitments to cutting fossil fuel use.

Beijing has vowed to replace coal with cleaner energy forms, but new coal project approvals have accelerated this year, according to the study by Global Energy Monitor (GEM) and the Centre for Research on Energy and Clean Air (Crea).

"While much of the world is moving away from coal, China continues to make it a central part of its energy mix," said Ms Christine Shearer, coal programme director at GEM.


The study said China has already proposed another 40.8GW of new coal-fired power plants this year, after Beijing eased restrictions on new plants. It now has 97.8GW of coal-fired power under construction and another 151.8GW at the planning stage. Plants accounting for some 17GW were allowed to start construction this year, more than the total amount approved during the previous two years.
China was initially following the TVA model back in the 70's and 80's nukes for base load, coal to ramp up and down for peak times as well as some base and hydro incorporated to peak times and to be part of the base during fall draw downs to prepare for spring rains (which helps allow nukes and coal plants to be off line for maintenance and nukes for refueling outages). I don't now what practice they adhere to now
President Harry S. Truman said: “The fundamental basis of this nation’s laws was given to Moses on the Mount.  The fundamental basis of our Bill of Rights comes from the teachings…  If we don't have the proper fundamental moral background, we will finally wind up with a totalitarian government which does not believe in rights for anybody except the state.”

HK_Vol

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Re: Electricity update Pt. 10
« Reply #41 on: June 27, 2020, 08:14:28 PM »
I don't now what practice they adhere to now

They adhere to the practice of whatever one produces the largest number of net jobs.  Coal wins by a mile in terms of operations, build, coal mining and transportation.

_______________________


China Seen Adding New Wave of Coal Plants After Lifting Curbs
www.bnnbloomberg.ca › china-seen-adding-new-wave...
Jun 10, 2020 - BEIJING, CHINA - NOVEMBER 27: A coal fired power plant is seen on ... world's coal and views it as an important source of cheap power and mass employment.

 

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