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Topic: (For “Free Thinkers”) — “Free will thinkers: Atheists or Christians?”

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Cincydawg

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Let's for the moment stipulate that there is a Creator, an entity which started this existence as we know it.  That generates two further possibilities:

1.  Deism, the Entity is distant, perhaps paying some attention or not, but not interacting with us in any way, or

2.  A god in the normal sense that interacts on this planet to alter things which would otherwise not occur under the Laws of Nature.

Is there any logical basis on which to differentiate those possibilities?  Are there other possibilities?  (I suppose a god could have once interacted but lost interested and left, but that is really option2).

ZenMode

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I can claim they're wrong if they believe he visits every Christian home on Earth in a single night to deliver gifts. 
Of course. It would be easy to prove that a specific action or event never happened, but that's different than saying the entity didn't exist. I can believe  that Jesus existed as a man on Earth even if I don't believe that he walked on water, fed 5000 people with a single loaf of bread, came back from the dead , Etc.

fuzzynavol

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Of course. It would be easy to prove that a specific action or event never happened, but that's different than saying the entity didn't exist. I can believe  that Jesus existed as a man on Earth even if I don't believe that he walked on water, fed 5000 people with a single loaf of bread, came back from the dead , Etc.
Right, but when people say they don't believe in Santa Claus, they're not saying they don't think there's anyone on earth with that name.  

fuzzynavol

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A small minority have adopted a more aggressive interpretation

Calls to jihad and martyrdom aren't "aggressive" interpretations, they're literal readings.   

but they are a minority

That very rationalization is what makes laissez faire tolerance of this ideology by moderates inside and outside the faith complicit in their silence.  

People need to stand up and say, "this is wrong."   

or the vast majority of Muslims around the world are not obeying the Koran today.

Maybe not all of it, but they're providing cover for those who do.  

Over 90% of the Muslims in England polled approved of the Chalie Hebdo massacre.  

Cincydawg

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As I noted, the vast majority of 1.5 billion Muslims don't behave that way.  The history of the early Ottoman Empire for example illustrates a considerable amount of tolerance for nonMuslims.

Your interpretation of jihad is NOT what most Muslims think it means.

Volitale

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That very rationalization is what makes laissez faire tolerance of this ideology by moderates inside and outside the faith complicit in their silence.  

People need to stand up and say, "this is wrong."


Why is it wrong?  Where does morality originate?  Why do your atoms care if other atoms are are destroyed?  

Cincydawg

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Why is it wrong?  Where does morality originate?  Why do your atoms care if other atoms are are destroyed? 
Humans are social animals.  One cannot imagine a functioning society without some form of moral standards.  Some human group of whatever size comprised of sociopaths would be very inefficient.

highVOLtage

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Why do we need to believe in a god? And furthermore I do not need to give you or anyone an argument for atheism, I have nothing to prove...you do.

Why would a person of any faith need to prove something to you?

Cincydawg

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Why would a person of any faith need to prove something to you?
They do not.  This is why it's called Faith.  If it indeed were logical and compelling, we'd have few who were not believers in a Creator.

fuzzynavol

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That very rationalization is what makes laissez faire tolerance of this ideology by moderates inside and outside the faith complicit in their silence. 

People need to stand up and say, "this is wrong."


Why is it wrong?  Where does morality originate?  Why do your atoms care if other atoms are are destroyed? 
Why is it wrong?  

It is wrong to subscribe to an ideology that reliably influences a fundamentalist subset of its adherents to commit murder and suicide (among the many crimes of Islamic culture).  

Where does morality originate?

That can be answered different ways.  As Cincy say, it originates and evolves in society, and it also originates in our brains if you prefer to look at it neurologically. 

Why do your atoms care if other atoms are are destroyed? 

Individually, they don't.  But collectively, they do.  


highVOLtage

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They do not.  This is why it's called Faith.  If it indeed were logical and compelling, we'd have few who were not believers in a Creator.

By your reasoning, since there are more people of faith in the world than atheists, then one could conclude that it is logical and compelling to believe in a creator.

Cincydawg

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By your reasoning, since there are more people of faith in the world than atheists, then one could conclude that it is logical and compelling to believe in a creator.
No, I would opine it is more popular, not more logical.  It was popular in March to buy up as much toilet paper as one could find.

highVOLtage

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Volitale

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Humans are social animals.  One cannot imagine a functioning society without some form of moral standards.  Some human group of whatever size comprised of sociopaths would be very inefficient.
Most animals are social.  You reply does not answer the question(s).

 

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